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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old July 29 2010, 07:00 PM   #31
starsuperion
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

okay here is the first of many technical schematic sheets with Gallifreyan ships, one of my favourites, is the vanquisher class heavy cruiser.. however, when you see the dreadnought and the warship class, especially rassilon's command ship, you guys are gonna get blown away!! seriously, rassilon's ship is especially badass..black, and golden..and massive!!
also the super massive mining/supply ships which make steel bolts for use with the hyper charge canon.. 1 mining and supply ship can service an entire fleet of bow ships..

I also have a short range fighter in the works.. I will also do the upgraded versions which were put into service during the last great time war, and used against the Daleks! Please stay tuned!



Note imagine the ship in a Burnt reddish colour and dark brass, with Golden Glowing High Gallifreyan Text, with the aft end a glow with blueish white energy.. as a charging hyper bolt bay is brimming with arcing lightning bolts of blue energy, just as a massive steel bolt is loaded in it's bay, and shot outward at tremendous speeds, so fast that it is a chrome steel blur, striking at the heart of a hovering great vampire devouring other ships of the Great Gallifreyan Fleet! In the back drop we see a massive mining ship providing support fire, as the massive main black, and burnt orange, with glowing high gallifreyan text, command ship of Rassilon's enters the fray, blasting it's enormous plasma canons, stripping flesh from the monstrous vampire horde surrounded and engaged as they tried to bleed a planet's life dry.

Now that is a Battle!

Note:

the Bolt shown is not actual size, and has been enlarged for detail purposes..
the H/S/P stands for Hyper Speed Parsec, comparable to Warp Drive Speeds.. 1 H/S/P is equal to 2.5 Warp Factors
Stasers only affect organic matter, and Mega stasers can penetrate other ship's hulls and destroy the organic life inside, leaving the ship intact.

Last edited by starsuperion; July 30 2010 at 02:31 PM.
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Old July 30 2010, 10:51 AM   #32
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

starsuperion wrote: View Post
Psion, Special thanks to you... I took some time off, and read up on some material concerning the Tardis..

what I found out is more amazing..
the design I finally have is the one..

and I have you to thank for the suggestion of the circular structures surrounding the ship..like the Time Lord citadel..
thanks man!
You are far too gracious about this, Starsuperion. It's easy for me to sit on the sidelines and make vague suggestions that radically alter artwork you spend countless hours sweating over. Easy and fun ... you keep coming back with amazing pictures that are so distractingly detailed that I get lost in them the way I get lost in high-resolution photos of cityscapes.

You're a talented guy. Talented and productive. TrekBBS is blessed with people who contribute artwork on a daily basis, but you're a treasure in a gilded landscape for all the attention to detail you bring to your projects.

When I visit conventions, I pay for stuff that doesn't measure up to the quality you bring to your sketches, and I'd kill -- literally -- to have a bit more of that character in me. I rank you up with the best I've seen on this forum and I hope you're making a living with your gifts because the distractions a mundane, nine-to-five job in an office might bring squander precious moments that would be better spent adding your visions to this world.

And! As if that wasn't enough, you have the humility (and bravery!) to actively consider and encourage nit-picking from your fans? There is liquid awesome flowing in your veins!

I hope some of that makes you feel proud, because I mean every word of it.



Now then ... about those new designs:

I love where you're going, but step back. This looks a little too Cardassian. The armatures, the structures at the top of the core, and the little, squashed disks on the "stalactites" under the vessel all contribute to a sense that this is derivative of the design of DS9. Not that it is -- I think this notion of field forces might have inadvertently led you down a path of artistic convergent evolution. Maybe if they curved inward more at the top and bottom, or had more intricate and ornate curves at the middle? Or if there were smaller curving armatures reaching up from the core towards the big ones? I don't know -- you're the one with talent, I'm just here to make your life difficult.

As the ship grows, do those armatures move further away from the core? That is, I'm assuming the cylindrical modules covered with roundels get added or dropped as the ship's mass grows or shrinks. I then imagine that they either don't grow beyond the limits of the armatures or the armatures can extend further out to encompass the extra size of the ship. If they do extend outward, and if they are devices intended to manipulate the field lines of the time vortex, then I also imagine they'd have to reconfigure their curvature ... flexing like mechanical tentacles to optimize their performance for a given configuration.

The roundels are a nice touch, by the way. They're huge, and the difference in scale between exterior and interior might compromise their recognition. If you want to cover the hull in Time Lord hieroglyphics, perhaps you can constrain the roundels to vertical strips -- rectangular regions of roundels that are textured with set-scaled detail. Similar to what you show, but just a bit more narrow. In your drawings, they'd never appear to be anything but gray blocks because they're so small in comparison, but any closeup views of the exterior would show acres of roundels stretching away into the distance.

I love the underside of the core. The volumes feel very iron-age-ish, but on a massive scale iron could never achieve. This is a steam locomotive of time travel -- fantastically advanced to mere 21st century humans, but quaint and dated to the people who built her. I almost wonder if there should be moving parts ... vortex flywheels and causal pistons that hammer away along the exterior of the ship as it flings itself across space and time. Of course, if we keep thinking like this, we'll soon have the TARDIS blowing steam and billowing clouds of coal smoke.

I'm glad you've brought down the scale again; I've always thought of the TARDIS as huge, but not as large as you've sometimes shown it. Of course, I still insist my knowledge of Who is hardly exhaustive, so there's room for us to quibble. It's a shame, on a ship this large, that we've never seen huge internal spaces. Perfectly understandable, given the budget, but still a shame.

Finally, the Bow Ship.
Outstanding! Bricklike, functional, it's a tank in space rendered large. Conceived in battle and executed with one purpose.

I have one very minor nitpick. The communications array currently points directly at the main weapons control superstructure on the bow. This makes sense if that parabolic dish is focusing energy on the array and broadcasting it across that space, but being a communications array, I suspect the main weapons control would interfere with its function ... and any organic tissues in weapons control might get cooked by RF when that giant dish sends a message. Oh, sure, the dish might swing 'round and point in different directions, but I'd suggest positioning it a little higher.
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Old July 30 2010, 06:52 PM   #33
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Stangely, the bowship looks more to me like the Saratoga from "Space: Above and Beyond" than anything Cardassian. Lemme see here...

http://spaceaboveandbeyond.tv/images-saratoga.html

Still some awesome stuff though, and hardly "bowlike". Keep it coming!

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Old July 30 2010, 07:06 PM   #34
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Mark_Nguyen wrote: View Post
Stangely, the bowship looks more to me like the Saratoga from "Space: Above and Beyond" than anything Cardassian. Lemme see here...

http://spaceaboveandbeyond.tv/images-saratoga.html

Still some awesome stuff though, and hardly "bowlike". Keep it coming!

Mark
Whoops! I've been away from the forum for a few days and haven't had a chance to respond to Starsuperion's posts in a timely manner. That first section, where I suggest his design resembles elements from DS9 (a Cardassian station, of course) was in reference to his sketch for the TARDIS. I should have quoted relevant sections from his posts, but my posts get a little long as it is ...

Sorry for the confusion. Once again "Now then, about those designs" referred to the TARDIS, and "Finally, the Bow Ship" had a comment about his prairie dogs.

...

I mean Bow Ships!
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Old July 30 2010, 08:30 PM   #35
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Psion wrote: View Post
starsuperion wrote: View Post
Psion, Special thanks to you... I took some time off, and read up on some material concerning the Tardis..

what I found out is more amazing..
the design I finally have is the one..

and I have you to thank for the suggestion of the circular structures surrounding the ship..like the Time Lord citadel..
thanks man!
You are far too gracious about this, Starsuperion. It's easy for me to sit on the sidelines and make vague suggestions that radically alter artwork you spend countless hours sweating over. Easy and fun ... you keep coming back with amazing pictures that are so distractingly detailed that I get lost in them the way I get lost in high-resolution photos of cityscapes.

You're a talented guy. Talented and productive. TrekBBS is blessed with people who contribute artwork on a daily basis, but you're a treasure in a gilded landscape for all the attention to detail you bring to your projects.

When I visit conventions, I pay for stuff that doesn't measure up to the quality you bring to your sketches, and I'd kill -- literally -- to have a bit more of that character in me. I rank you up with the best I've seen on this forum and I hope you're making a living with your gifts because the distractions a mundane, nine-to-five job in an office might bring squander precious moments that would be better spent adding your visions to this world.

And! As if that wasn't enough, you have the humility (and bravery!) to actively consider and encourage nit-picking from your fans? There is liquid awesome flowing in your veins!

I hope some of that makes you feel proud, because I mean every word of it.
I am humbled by that and motivated..thank you very much.

Psion wrote: View Post
Now then ... about those new designs:
I love where you're going, but step back. This looks a little too Cardassian. The armatures, the structures at the top of the core, and the little, squashed disks on the "stalactites" under the vessel all contribute to a sense that this is derivative of the design of DS9. Not that it is -- I think this notion of field forces might have inadvertently led you down a path of artistic convergent evolution. Maybe if they curved inward more at the top and bottom, or had more intricate and ornate curves at the middle? Or if there were smaller curving armatures reaching up from the core towards the big ones? I don't know -- you're the one with talent, I'm just here to make your life difficult.
that you do.. LOL

anyhow, I was thinking, why do we even need those massive structural bows anyhow? I mean the Tardis is essentially just a series of modifiable Rooms and massive engines with a central core structure..

so maybe it should just be that, and no additional inferences added..

Psion wrote: View Post
As the ship grows, do those armatures move further away from the core?
That was the general Idea.. yeah they would be an extension of the ship's core structure and were meant to create a magnetic field which held back the tremendous dimensional forces and pressure on the main structure....but then again, if we remove the armatures, then the ship doesn't have that as a restriction..

Psion wrote: View Post
That is, I'm assuming the cylindrical modules covered with roundels get added or dropped as the ship's mass grows or shrinks.
that is correct, actually the cylinders are hexagonal from the top..anyways, these room structures already sport a shield network of columns which line the exterior of the cylinder on their edges.. it could be surmised that the room sections do not need a superseding structural armature, because each room is individually protected.. a fact that I sometimes forget, but now that we are discussing the removal of the armatures, it makes sense.. think of it like this, the rooms once constructed are powered up by the ship and add their own shielding to the overall structure, but as a section of cylinder room decks are jettisoned, they immediately loose their shielding, and convert to plasma, and ignite the vortex,, providing the thrust the Tardis needs to boost out of a super heavy gravitational area where it lacks the necessary power to do it on it's own merit...



I mean in some instances we could modify the armatures to be more boxy.. but I think ultimately that is counter productive to the overall feel of the ship..



Psion wrote: View Post
I then imagine that they either don't grow beyond the limits of the armatures or the armatures can extend further out to encompass the extra size of the ship. If they do extend outward, and if they are devices intended to manipulate the field lines of the time vortex, then I also imagine they'd have to reconfigure their curvature ... flexing like mechanical tentacles to optimize their performance for a given configuration.
though that is a brilliant idea, no that wasn't the intention.. the Time Vortex is manipulated through the central engine at the base of the Tardis structure, where it acts like a rudder if you will, in the stream of time and dimension.. there is no actual thrust seen in the vortex because all of that energy is being manipulated in the other dimension, the end result of which moves that gateway with the construct (police Box) through the vortex and time and space.. it's like it teleports it's entire dimension throughout the galaxy, in reality it is actually doing that to the outside, and it's manifestation in our dimension.. so there doesn't really need to be a vortex stream inside the ship's dimension, like I originally thought, good thing I went back and did more research..



Psion wrote: View Post
The roundels are a nice touch, by the way. They're huge, and the difference in scale between exterior and interior might compromise their recognition. If you want to cover the hull in Time Lord hieroglyphics, perhaps you can constrain the roundels to vertical strips -- rectangular regions of roundels that are textured with set-scaled detail. Similar to what you show, but just a bit more narrow. In your drawings, they'd never appear to be anything but gray blocks because they're so small in comparison, but any closeup views of the exterior would show acres of roundels stretching away into the distance.
that sounds intriguing, can you do a little work and give me an example of what you are talking about??

Psion wrote: View Post
I love the underside of the core. The volumes feel very iron-age-ish, but on a massive scale iron could never achieve. This is a steam locomotive of time travel -- fantastically advanced to mere 21st century humans, but quaint and dated to the people who built her. I almost wonder if there should be moving parts ... vortex flywheels and causal pistons that hammer away along the exterior of the ship as it flings itself across space and time. Of course, if we keep thinking like this, we'll soon have the TARDIS blowing steam and billowing clouds of coal smoke.
yeah I was thinking that there should be some piston like apparatuses inside the interior of the ship's structure, and be a part of the main engineering.. I did a newer design, removing the massive boiler like engine, to a degree, and the armatures, in the thinking that:

1. the Armatures are not needed, because each room has their own shield generating columns..

2. I go back to the Great spaceship design, Mr. Jeffries, why would an advanced society make a ship where you had to go outside to repair something, when it makes much more sense to have most of it inside the ship for access..even if the tardis were self repairing to a degree, the bulky nature of the engines in my previous design may have been a tad too much..




hmm... maybe all I need to do is just make those shield generating columns on the outside of the ship a bit more pronounced..


Psion wrote: View Post
I'm glad you've brought down the scale again; I've always thought of the TARDIS as huge, but not as large as you've sometimes shown it. Of course, I still insist my knowledge of Who is hardly exhaustive, so there's room for us to quibble. It's a shame, on a ship this large, that we've never seen huge internal spaces. Perfectly understandable, given the budget, but still a shame.
I agree, maybe with the advancements in CGI and such we will get to see it in the newer series..as for the scale, I agree, to me, the size you see in the design above is much more along the lines of what should be the tardis in size.. it should be relative to it's power output, and given that each deck section of room must maintain a certain level of shielding in the dimension, or maybe it's an energy field that keeps the dimension at bay, either way, I think that the ship's size is determined by it's available energy, and if it is in dire energy needs, those parts of the ship begin to suffer from vortex or dimensional decay.. it makes sense..

Psion wrote: View Post
Finally, the Bow Ship.
Outstanding! Bricklike, functional, it's a tank in space rendered large. Conceived in battle and executed with one purpose.
thanks, the goal was to make the ship look sturdy and bulky like an ancient ramming ship of sorts..in case that was the last resort, and structurally the ship's hull was reinforced to withstand the tremendous power behind it's steel bolt blaster, and shock absorbtion for ramming into a vampire with the ship itself..

Psion wrote: View Post
I have one very minor nitpick. The communications array currently points directly at the main weapons control superstructure on the bow. This makes sense if that parabolic dish is focusing energy on the array and broadcasting it across that space, but being a communications array, I suspect the main weapons control would interfere with its function ... and any organic tissues in weapons control might get cooked by RF when that giant dish sends a message. Oh, sure, the dish might swing 'round and point in different directions, but I'd suggest positioning it a little higher.
actually the dish is just for communications and sensory work, I have moved it higher on the ship's bridge, think of the antennae structures at the top of the weapons control, they are fins, but act like focusing tools that assist in the communications and sensory dish.. the stasers on the side of the ship emit a focused beam which is then directed to other ships hulls, or vampires and affects organic material..but the dish has no damaging ability, unless rewired, in which case would be a last resort, and would be used in the event the main weapons control was destroyed, and all other weapons were offline..

I also added the Type-7 to the name of the steel spire.. as with the heavy cruisers, they carried 5 type 7 steel bolts, which housed explosives which could destroy a vampire's heart completely.. from what I have read, in some cases this was necessary..

Last edited by starsuperion; July 31 2010 at 12:48 AM.
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Old July 30 2010, 08:44 PM   #36
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Mark_Nguyen wrote: View Post
Stangely, the bowship looks more to me like the Saratoga from "Space: Above and Beyond" than anything Cardassian. Lemme see here...

http://spaceaboveandbeyond.tv/images-saratoga.html

Still some awesome stuff though, and hardly "bowlike". Keep it coming!

Mark
wow! I didn' even know what that was, nice link, that is a cool website! actually I was thinking of modeling the bowships more on the look of the ships from battle fleet gothic, and the imperial navy..

http://www.pictorsstudio.com/battlefleet.htm

only in a more Gallifreyan aesthtic..
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Old July 30 2010, 08:44 PM   #37
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Very cool....I was actually reminded of the aforementioned Saratoga mixed with the Federated Army battlecrusiers from "The Fifth Element". I love both of those designs including the bowship. I could see Rassilon kicking some Dalek can with these bad boys. "Exterminate this...you bucket of bolts. For Gallifrey!!"
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Old July 30 2010, 09:01 PM   #38
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Very cool....I was actually reminded of the aforementioned Saratoga mixed with the Federated Army battlecrusiers from "The Fifth Element". I love both of those designs including the bowship. I could see Rassilon kicking some Dalek can with these bad boys. "Exterminate this...you bucket of bolts. For Gallifrey!!"

he he he, wait till you see Rassilon's command ship! It is fantastic!

Last edited by starsuperion; July 31 2010 at 01:03 AM.
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Old July 31 2010, 04:43 PM   #39
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Like I did once before with the Bowship design,

Here is a preview before the final schematic sheet, of the Type 40 TT capsule as seen within it's own dimension..

A couple of design notes..

the ship can make and jettison new room sections at will, which would delete them via a dispersal pattern, which converts them into their raw plasma like state, which is then ignited in the vortex to produce thrust.. if this is done, the outer structure of the Tardis rooms remains in tact.. that is because the outer structure is the absolute limits of the ship itself, and must remain, inside the massive outer structure, we see in the image below, there is a void of rooms, and what looks like Victorian Ironwork, and a mass of energy piping, and circuitry nodes.. reminiscent of the interior of the virtual world of tron.. on the outside of the massive structure are immense roundels, within their own blocks, and sections.. this reflects the theory that the ship's roundels are an intrinsically essential to the ship itself..

the Tardis has one central structure which was the only part built by the time lord Engineers, this is because to create a Tardis, there has to be sections which are built, and the rest of the ship is cold plasma and molecular matter manipulations..

the Tardis central Structure looks much different from the rest of the ship because it is built by Time lord engineers, it consists of the initial console control room, default and secondary console rooms, shown in the 8th doctor's adventure 1996 movie-Hartnell's Tardis, and the 4th doctor's Use in the deadly assassin, the main computer core, main engines, main vital circuitry, dynamorphic generators, the cloister room, sensors, communications and scanning equipment, and the central column structure. all other rooms, and or devices are constructed around this.

for instance the main circuitry relays for the chameleon circuit reside in the main built structure, however, the outer walls and access panels to the circuitry can change with the "desk top theme", if so desired.. but the circuitry remains where it is, and does not move.. only the walls surrounding it are modified..

with that said, here is the preview of the Tardis as seen in it's own dimension. Also, I was going to put some Gallifreyan text on the outside of the ships rooms at their top, and then realized that would be fruitless, and unnecessary.. why would the time lords put writing on the outside of their tardises, no one would ever see it? so It makes sense logically to have left that out of the design..

Just as the Tardis is bigger on the inside, so too is it more complex on the inside then outside..A stripped down schematic will be done soon after this one to detail the main sections of the Core Tardis structure..This shows how the ship works in relation to the console rooms, and the main reactors, and engines..along with the circuitry and computer core rooms..


Last edited by starsuperion; August 1 2010 at 06:59 AM.
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Old August 1 2010, 12:52 PM   #40
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

I am guessing I just missed it but I am wondering what you are using to create these incredible images? and are they vector art originally?
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Old August 1 2010, 10:08 PM   #41
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

The_Architect wrote: View Post
I am guessing I just missed it but I am wondering what you are using to create these incredible images? and are they vector art originally?
actually no, I use paintshop pro 12 and eye ball it..

measurement is done through cut and paste..

stay tuned, the newer design for the vanquisher class is coming tonight, and it will be hundreds of thousands of light years ahead in style and design.. I finalized the Tardis, above.. I think it looks great! and will do nicely for the manual I am working on..
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Old August 3 2010, 04:23 PM   #42
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Okay, I was a bit late.. an yes, this is only a preview of the final design, but I went back and researched my earlier Fan made Yamato ship designs which had more of a WWII feel to the ships, and decided they would be better served to be used with the Gallifreyan Bowships..

If the aft Hyperspace Engines look familiar that is because I used the classic Star Trek Nacelle front, and thought that if this was ever done in CG, it would look awesome to see those fan like engines twirl with bright blue energy and at the same time simulating a ship rudder, while giving homage to the classic 60's Trek..

a few items of note:

1. the bars that wind around the sides of the ship are the psychic shield emitters..they fan out an anti psychic field force that protects the crew of the Bowship from the Great Vampire's Dark corrupting forces. they are done in a chrome colour and give the ship a sort of Retro-futuristic look. the energy emitted looks like ringlets of power in circles flowing outward and disipating just beyond the ship.. almost like a broadcast signal..

2. There is a massive observation window on each side of the ship's bridge area, which allows the crew to see a beautiful view of the galaxy as they travel the universe in search of their enemy the Great Vampires..these windows can be sealed with shielding during times of battle or great cosmic dangers..the window is open to the Main gathering center of the ship, known as the great hall.. and is reminiscent of the eating area of Hogwarts..only in Gallifreyan architecture and design.with cathedral-like vaulted ceilings..

3. At the bow of the ship, just below the ram spike, are 2 bolt guns, which sit on top of each other. it seems to me that if for some reason the first steel bolt missed, there could be a 2nd one ready to go just after as they reload..


4. The Ship is covered in many staser canons, and has torpedo bays below the ship which can fire off missile like projectiles and damage enemy hulls, or shatter Vampire bones, while the stasers strip away flesh, only the Great Vampires are capable of rapid regeneration, so the need for multiple staser firing is to wear down the vampire enough to get a clean shot..

5. the Ship's colour is in a rust-red, with Gold or Brass in certain areas, with golden glowing high Gallifreyan Text in certain areas on the ship.It has bright glowing blue spinning bulbs at the aft end, which look like the classic Star Trek Enterprise front nacelles..there are four each and they all twirl inwards toward the middle..

6. Each separate staser canon has a control station just above the guns to guide them more effectively in a fierce battle.

7. Chancellory Control is where the Gallifreyan High Council members reside dictating the law of the home-world and ultimately oversees the ship and it's crew. the main bridge is where the controls and helm are located, and is primarily the place where the main functions of the ship are produced.

a full schematic sheet will follow later.. I think though, that until I am done doing half the fleet, I will refrain from uploading them one at a time, and do it all at once.. Unless you want me to do them one at a time???. Please let me know

I hope you guys like this one better..


Last edited by starsuperion; August 3 2010 at 08:48 PM.
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Old August 3 2010, 05:03 PM   #43
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

I do. I really, really do.

Would a Gallifreyan ship need old-fashioned escape pods, though, or is it just a throwback to more primitive technology for when the higher stuff doens't work? I'd imagine a TARDIS or two to be available on board for just such a need to escape. The Master did exactly that by hiding one TARDIS inside another in "The Keeper of Traken" for when he made his inevitable escape...

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Old August 3 2010, 05:20 PM   #44
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Mark_Nguyen wrote: View Post
I do. I really, really do.

Would a Gallifreyan ship need old-fashioned escape pods, though, or is it just a throwback to more primitive technology for when the higher stuff doens't work? I'd imagine a TARDIS or two to be available on board for just such a need to escape. The Master did exactly that by hiding one TARDIS inside another in "The Keeper of Traken" for when he made his inevitable escape...

Mark

Thanks, I am glad you like it!

actually from what I understand, during the vampire wars, they didn't have time lord technology or tardises yet.. so the escape pods would definitely be necessary.This is just before Rassilon and Omega's experiments..I think that the Gallifreyan race has regeneration abilities at this time period, though..
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Old August 3 2010, 08:34 PM   #45
Admiral_Young
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

I like the latter ship better than the bowship above...for some reason I am desperate to see character bios lol. Demand a lot of you but then your art is worth it lol.
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