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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old July 12 2010, 12:05 AM   #1
Nerys Ghemor
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Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

This probably has been asked, but I tried the search function and can't find a thread about it...

My question is, does the turbolift go sideways as well as up and down? Or do we just have to assume starships are just REALLY well laid-out so that you can get all the way from Ten Forward to the Bridge in no time? I really don't think it's the latter...but have we had any proof that by the 24th century, that turbolifts can't be made in a side-to-side version as well as a vertical one (if not a combined version)?

I'm writing a scene in The Thirteenth Order where I need to know this.
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Old July 12 2010, 12:31 AM   #2
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

Turbolifts have gone side-to-side since TOS...
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Old July 12 2010, 01:33 AM   #3
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

I don't really know TOS all that well...anywhere where we see that happen or hear it mentioned?
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Old July 12 2010, 01:57 AM   #4
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

The lighting effect on the wall of the turbolift set clearly indicated horizontal as well as vertical movement.

From TMOST:
Obviously, efficient movement about such a large vessel requires mechanical assistance. This is provided by the ship's turbo-elevators. These high-speed lifts run both horizontally and vertically. Television story needs first made the turbo-elevators necessary. An action-adventure television show must move at a fast dramatic pace. And it became obvious in the first few episodes that this could be no mere “elevator” -- our characters had to get places horizontally just as fast. Once again, story needs resulted in a concept that was not only logical but necessary in a vessel of this size.

The turbo-elevators operate in a way similar to huge pneumatic tubes, each elevator independently turbine-driven, controlled by computer-activated relays in the shaft that control and direct the air pressure created by the turbines.
Of course, that last sentence is contradictory, since pneumatic tube systems don't work like that at all.
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Old July 12 2010, 03:38 AM   #5
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

Pick a random TOS episode and I'd say there's a good chance you'll see it happen...but to be fair I haven't seen a TOS episode in quite awhile now. I just vividly remember it occurring, seems like all the time. TPTB definitely wanted us to know the lifts could do that.
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Old July 12 2010, 05:54 AM   #6
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

I don't remember seeing it on TNG or DS9...though in that case, given the layout of DS9 AND the fact that we have a transporter pad right in Ops, I think there's a fair chance the Cardassians might not have designed the station that way. Or maybe they had regular elevators AND turbolifts more like what the Federation had.

Did we ever see anything showing the turbolifts moving sideways in TNG?
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Old July 12 2010, 06:30 AM   #7
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

There was a turbolift malfunction in "Contagion" where LaForge was thrown every which way, including sideways, during a wild ride... The ride apparently ended in a horizontal stretch of travel at reaching Main Bridge, since LaForge was forcibly thrown out there.

Also, in ST:Insurrection, there was an explicit, animated diagram showing turbolift movement, including long horizontal passages.

Apart from those, I don't think we saw anything explicit, or had the camera visit the insides of a horizontal turboshaft. But of course our heroes do get from the bridge to Main Engineering, or somewhere within very short walking distance of it, in one ride - which would be downright impossible on the E-D without horizontal turbolift movement, and is already highly dubious on the earlier, smaller Enterprises.

I'd argue that one of the main advantages of the turbolift over today's elevators is a side product of this sideways capability, not the capability itself. Namely, a turbolift is an independently moving vehicle that can easily change lanes and sidestep other traffic. This easily increases the capacity of the shaft network tenfold at least over the "network" of a modern elevator where cars cannot sidestep or change lanes, but must wait behind each other or then have whole lanes dedicated to just one cab. Imagine what New York would look like if there could only ever be one taxi cab per lane....

The ability to sidestep, or to park on the curb, is probably why there's a horizontal stretch at Main Bridge level on the E-D ("Contagion"). The shaft to that compact topmost deck is vertical all right, but there's a horizontal staging area there as well, allowing a number of turbolifts to wait for passengers so that there never are delays at this important lift station.

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Old July 12 2010, 07:50 AM   #8
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

Does the "Day of the Dove" diagram show any turbolift tubes?
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Old July 12 2010, 08:42 AM   #9
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...yofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine...01-cutaway.jpg

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Old July 12 2010, 01:46 PM   #10
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

Timo wrote: View Post
I'd argue that one of the main advantages of the turbolift over today's elevators is a side product of this sideways capability, not the capability itself. Namely, a turbolift is an independently moving vehicle that can easily change lanes and sidestep other traffic. This easily increases the capacity of the shaft network tenfold at least over the "network" of a modern elevator where cars cannot sidestep or change lanes, but must wait behind each other or then have whole lanes dedicated to just one cab. Imagine what New York would look like if there could only ever be one taxi cab per lane....
Yeah, I always get annoyed when, in Trek books, they talk about a character waiting for a turbolift car. What, they don't think that problem will be solved in 300 years?
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Old July 12 2010, 02:03 PM   #11
Mike Farley
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

If I recall correctly Shelby and Riker had to wait a few moments for a turbolift in The Best of Both Worlds. Given a limited amount of cars, there will occasionally be a wait, albeit usually a short one.
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Old July 12 2010, 02:41 PM   #12
sojourner
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

Timo wrote: View Post
That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...yofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine...01-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi
Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.
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Old July 12 2010, 08:04 PM   #13
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

sojourner wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...yofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine...01-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi
Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.
On the contrary, there *is* a way in which those two links will work: copy and paste the link into your web browser's URL box directly, instead of trying to click on it is a hypertext link.
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Old July 12 2010, 09:59 PM   #14
TIN_MAN
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

Also in ST:TMP the display in the turbo lift clearly shows both vertical and horizontal shafts.
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Old July 13 2010, 02:26 AM   #15
sojourner
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Re: Logistics inside a starship--the turbolift

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
That's anybody's guess. Cut'n'paste to see the Ex astris image:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...yofthedove.jpg

Drexler's onscreen diagram for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does show what he intended to be the turbolift tubes of the TOS vessel, but they aren't exactly labeled as such.

(Can't get the caps from TrekCore at this time. But it's a reproduction of this one, from the Captain's Chair CD-ROM.)

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine...01-cutaway.jpg

Timo Saloniemi
Neither of those links work in any way, shape, or form.
On the contrary, there *is* a way in which those two links will work: copy and paste the link into your web browser's URL box directly, instead of trying to click on it is a hypertext link.
I did, neither one worked. Like I said.
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