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Old July 2 2010, 05:53 PM   #31
DigificWriter
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

I'm not quite sure what happened in terms of New Moon, but I do know that Chris Weitz was fully invested in NM, as evidenced by the number of times he talked about the project and the letter that he sent out to the fans just after he signed on to direct the film. The film does have a very different stylistic tone than Twilight, and doesn't feel quite as 'intimate', but I don't think it's because of anything that Weitz did or didn't do in terms of directing the film or in terms of the investment he put into the material.

On an unrelated side note, I also know from interviews that Shaymalan considered himself a fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender, so I can't really explain how/why that film is getting the scathing reviews that it is.

BTW, I thought NM was better than Twilight, but not to the degree that it ultimately probably could've been.
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Old July 2 2010, 07:40 PM   #32
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
BTW, I thought NM was better than Twilight, but not to the degree that it ultimately probably could've been.
I just watched the first two films on DVD in the last two evenings, and I'd have to agree with your assessment. New Moon was slightly more enjoyable.

Probably my biggest complaints about the first two films... other than the "sparkly" skin of the vampires... would be the lack of threatening opposition (the Volturi were kind of imposing in New Moon, but Victoria was barely there!), and also Bella's ignorance. Seriously, how thick-skulled do you have to be to think up scenarios where your boyfriend is either Spider-Man or Superman, but not one where he is a vampire? And how many hints did Jacob have to toss her way before finally surprising her with his transformation into a werewolf? For someone so dense, she's lucky to have survived THIS long.

Other than that, it's been decent escapist fun thus far, even if the stories weren't geared towards my gender or age range.
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Old July 2 2010, 09:23 PM   #33
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

When will the vampires figure out they can't "read" Bella's mind because there's nothing there to read?
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Old July 2 2010, 09:25 PM   #34
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Well I saw it wednesday and thought it was............EPIC!!!!!!!!! TEAM EDWARD FTW!!!!!!!!!
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Old July 2 2010, 09:56 PM   #35
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Caligula wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
BTW, I thought NM was better than Twilight, but not to the degree that it ultimately probably could've been.
I just watched the first two films on DVD in the last two evenings, and I'd have to agree with your assessment. New Moon was slightly more enjoyable.

Probably my biggest complaints about the first two films... other than the "sparkly" skin of the vampires... would be the lack of threatening opposition (the Volturi were kind of imposing in New Moon, but Victoria was barely there!), and also Bella's ignorance. Seriously, how thick-skulled do you have to be to think up scenarios where your boyfriend is either Spider-Man or Superman, but not one where he is a vampire? And how many hints did Jacob have to toss her way before finally surprising her with his transformation into a werewolf? For someone so dense, she's lucky to have survived THIS long.

Other than that, it's been decent escapist fun thus far, even if the stories weren't geared towards my gender or age range.
Hey Charles. I don't run into you much anymore online, so it's cool to see you post here.

Regarding Bella's behavior, a lot of it has to do with the nature of the story that Meyer is trying to tell, which is much more surreal than its 'real-world' setting might suggest; as a series, Twilight is very much a supernatural romance (somewhat like Dark Shadows) and doesn't really try to pretend to be anything more. Yes, it's somewhat grounded in reality, but for the most part Meyer doesn't pay attention to what would really be plausible or 100% believable for a person really in the situation(s) that Bella finds herself in throughout the course of the 4 novels. Whether or not that is a negative aspect of the story is up to personal interpretation, but it does further contribute to what I said about the saga being very 'niche'.
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Old July 3 2010, 01:31 AM   #36
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

I saw Eclipse. I'm surprised but Eclipse did not suck. This was the first Twilight film I really watched. I only watched a few minutes of New Moon, but I liked the trailer for Eclipse so I decided to check it out. Also, the Eclipse director did 30 Days of Night so I was curious to see if what he would do with a Twilight film.

Okay, here's what I liked:
-Newborn army of vamps.
-Victoria.
-Riley.
-Volturri.
-Volturri and some other vamps having red eyes. Nice effect. Better than the gold eyes or whatever Team Edward had.
-Blond actress in Edward's clan. She had a brief scene telling how she became a vamp, but she conveyed more emotion and acting in 5 minutes than Bella did the whole movie. She should've been the lead actress.
-Flashback scenes in general.
-At times the movie nicely built up the tension and the anticipation for the big climatic battle.
-Some of the final action scenes.

Here's what didn't work for me:
-Bella, what a cold fish. It took her like an hour and a half to smile and the movie was just over 2 hours. For the most part she was mopey or crabby. Yeah, she's nice looking, but I totally don't get what makes her special and why anyone would fight over her.
-Jacob. Though I would be on Team Jacob and by the whoops from the majority teenage girl audience I watched the film with, they also are on Team Jacob. They applauded when he first showed up and then every time after when he had his shirt off, which was more than necessary. But the guy can't act. He tried, but just no dice.
-Male werewolves going shirtless. That just wasn't right especially when the female werewolves didn't go shirtless. A bunch of werewolf dudes hanging out without shirts on and wearing shorts. It just wasn't my type of party. Plus I didn't get what happened to their clothes when they morphed? With True Blood we see shifters taking off their clothes, but it seems with Twilight the clothes magically disappear and then reappear.
-Didn't show the newborns enough and they didn't develop Victoria enough either.
-The movie dragged in spots but sometimes they would cut to the newborns which got my attention again.
-Bella's father. One of the lamest dads in cinematic history. He's supposed to be a sheriff or something but he can't lay down the law in his own house. He was way too cool about stuff IMO.
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Old July 3 2010, 04:08 AM   #37
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

The Twilight Saga: Eclipse

Rated: PG-13 for dopey, angsty, teenage melodramatic bullshit and some blood. ... Oh, and shirtless dudes, lots and lots of shirtless dudes.

My Grade: (Generous): C+

-------------------------------------------------------

Let me get this out now:

BELLA IS AN IDIOT!!!!!

I wanted to yell this out during the entire time in the theater. She is an idiot! She's like every stereotype of a teenaged girl rolled into one character and her stupid teenage girl characteristics are encouraged by the way this series' plot will unfold and be carried out. Her vampire power must be making bad decisions despite being given warning signs from everyone around her that she's making the wrong choice. But I'm getting waaaayyyyy ahead of myself.

By one or two movies, in fact.

Now, to be fair, I'm not the right audience for these movies. I'm twice the average age of this movie goers and I have a Y-Chromosome. But if I'm going to hate on this series I need to be fair and watch it (but I'm not reading the books!) so I can at least bash on them in a somewhat informed manner. So as I sat in the theater this evening I realized how out of my element I was. It was a theater practically full of teenagers on their smart-phones updating their Twitter pages or whatever, girls who "whooed" whenever a shirtless boy appeared on the screen (which happens like never in this movie) and he who swarmed to the front of the theater to get an autograph from a visiting celebrity. (The actor who plays Jacob's father made an appearance at my showing.) I've gotten old and this movie-viewing made me realize that. Fine whatever.

So what's the movie about? Bella being all angsty and up in her shit about bullshit, what else? She still wants to become an undead, unholy, abomination of nature, she's still stringing Jacob the "werewolf" boy along like the lost puppy he is but this time around there's a nice infusion of action as a rouge band of "new blood" vampires on trying to hunt her down. (New blood vampires are more untamed and have more thirst than their "older" brethren.) It's all melodramatic nonsense that leads up to a decent action scene although the action scenes look like they were filmed by Michael Bay having a stroke while on a caffeine rush. The plot is just bullshit because I was just sitting there the whole time wanting to yell out what an idiot Bella is. In the more interesting moments of the movie she talks with two of her "vampire" friends about "life" as a vampire and they pretty much tell her through flashback "It sucks, don't do it." She pretty much ignores them. And I'm not even entirely sure why the Venturi Illuminati Breakaway Coven of vampires are after her, or encouraging the rouge vampires. Bah, I'm sure it'll become clear in the next one. Oh, and as more evidence that this movie series is encouraging stupid-behavior in teenagers the valedictorian at Bella's graduation gives one of those speeches that says, "We're young and graduated! Do whatever you want and make mistakes! Figure it out later!" Which makes the teenagers in the audience woo and say. "Right on!" and makes the adults say, "Ummm... the fuck?!"

Also like the other movies all of the secondary characters are vastly more interesting than our two romantic leads. Jacob is more interesting (the only main character who is), Bella's father is more interesting, Jasper (Edward's "vampire family" civil-war era soldier), cute pixie vampire girl, doctor vampire dude, douchey emo vampire dude, "werewolf" leader old guy visiting a random theater in Kansas dude, Bella's 'stached father, blonde Victorian era vampire girl, all of them.

All of the secondary characters are a lot more interesting and people I'd rather see in a movie. Jasper tells a tale of how he became a vampire and his story is far more interesting a 10-minutes than three movies worth of Bella's angsty teenage bullshit. And that's my problem.

Bella is a stupid, angsty, teenager. Now, sure, all teenagers are like that but is this film series supposed to be a tragedy? When what happens to her at the end of this movie series occurs are we supposed to weep for her and everything she gives up just so she can crush on some sparkly creepy guy for eternity?

And why is there even a "Team Jacob" or a "Team Edward" when what happens in this books should be known to anyone who has read all of them? What's the point of rooting for one side of things when the outcome is known? I don't get it, I've way too much testosterone for any of it to make sense or motivate me.

Entertaining movie, decent action scenes, probably the "best" of the movie series to this point, which isn't saying much. But the Edward/Bella bullshit weighs it down. The Edward/Jacob and Bella/Jacob sides of the triangle works pretty well -even if it wasn't obvious how much of a bitch Bella is toward Jacob- but the Bella/Edward stuff? Ugggggghhhhhhh. Just kill me. Really? They're supposed to be a couple I'm to root for? Or is this really a tragedy and I should be rooting for Bella to make the "right" choice even though I know the outcome? I don't get it.

I'm too old for this shit.
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Old July 3 2010, 05:01 AM   #38
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
And I'm not even entirely sure why the Venturi Illuminati Breakaway Coven of vampires are after her, or encouraging the rouge vampires. Bah, I'm sure it'll become clear in the next one.
The Volturi's biggest law is that humans must not know about the existence of the Vampries. If a human knows they have to be killed or eventually turned into a Vampire. They let Bella go at the end of New Moon because Alice promised that she would change her. Alice was lying obviously.

In the book and movie, it's implied that the Volturi didn't do anything about the vampire army because they wanted the rogue vamps to kill off some the Cullen family. In the book it's explained better.
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Old July 3 2010, 05:15 AM   #39
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Yeah, that's kind of what I gleamed from the movies but it still wasn't very clear to me. Granted, the first two movies I watched with Rifftrax, so...



I did like how in this movie the "vampires" and the "werewolves" came to a "truce" to fight the the n00b vampires. That was kind-of nifty.
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Old July 3 2010, 06:09 AM   #40
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Trekker, how is choosing immortality and superhuman strength and some sort of superpower AND a hot dude to sleep with through it a "bad thing" lol? Wouldn't you do it if it was a hot chick?

I'd rather choose that option than choose a guy who has a short leash on his temper and a tendency to scratch people's faces off
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Old July 3 2010, 06:13 AM   #41
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

I will say this about Eclipse ... there was a subtlety I quite liked about it. All throughout the film, there is an understated, almost intimate build-up to the final battle sequence, and even the battle sequence is understated and not over-done, as is usually the case with genre films (Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Matrix). I quite liked that about this film, and hope it's something they try to replicate in the next two.
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Old July 3 2010, 06:15 AM   #42
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

indranee wrote: View Post
I just have to say this: as a long time Trekkie, I do not expect my fellow Trekkies on a Trek board to have such condescending attitudes toward the fans and the mytharc of Twilight. Have we forgotten how WE are treated by society on the whole?
A calumnious comparison. Trek's core values are to explore, better one's self, and serve others. Twilight's core values are to never get wrinkles, and protect one's own interests at all costs:

The National Review wrote:
Meyer once retorted to critics who accused her of misogyny, “I am not anti-female; I am anti-human.” Whether she was aware of it or not, this was far more than just a flippant remark. Just like the allegedly positive messages about romance and sexuality, any value that Meyer and her characters place on human life is only on the surface. More than once, Edward and his family look the other way — or even provide assistance — when fellow members of their species hunt humans, just as long as those humans aren’t people they know.
...

indranee wrote: View Post
As a woman, I'm just way happy that a "girlie" franchise is finally making so much g-d money. Seriously, guys, can't you just be happy for us?
I think most of us are simply baffled as to what drives all these women to embrace a series that treats women so badly.
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Old July 3 2010, 06:32 AM   #43
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Gaith wrote: View Post
The National Review wrote:
More than once, Edward and his family look the other way — or even provide assistance — when fellow members of their species hunt humans, just as long as those humans aren’t people they know.
...
What a very strange thing to say.

They are VAMPIRES! To nearly all vampries, human beings on at the bottom of the food chain. The vampire leaders themselves, the Volturi, feed on humans. In the books, the Cullen family are considered odd by other vampires because they refrain from human blood. If they started protecting humans everywhere it would be if one of us tried to protect all cows in the world from being slaugthered. They are not responsible for what other creatures like them do.
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Old July 3 2010, 06:52 AM   #44
indranee
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Gaith wrote: View Post
indranee wrote: View Post
I just have to say this: as a long time Trekkie, I do not expect my fellow Trekkies on a Trek board to have such condescending attitudes toward the fans and the mytharc of Twilight. Have we forgotten how WE are treated by society on the whole?
A calumnious comparison. Trek's core values are to explore, better one's self, and serve others. Twilight's core values are to never get wrinkles, and protect one's own interests at all costs:

The National Review wrote:
Meyer once retorted to critics who accused her of misogyny, “I am not anti-female; I am anti-human.” Whether she was aware of it or not, this was far more than just a flippant remark. Just like the allegedly positive messages about romance and sexuality, any value that Meyer and her characters place on human life is only on the surface. More than once, Edward and his family look the other way — or even provide assistance — when fellow members of their species hunt humans, just as long as those humans aren’t people they know.
...

indranee wrote: View Post
As a woman, I'm just way happy that a "girlie" franchise is finally making so much g-d money. Seriously, guys, can't you just be happy for us?
I think most of us are simply baffled as to what drives all these women to embrace a series that treats women so badly.
I still don't expect condescension. Bafflement, sure. Not condescension. I've been there. I was a Trekkie when it was NOT fashionable. I've been one for 35 years now. I'm not gonna play that card.

As far as the women thing. Come on. Turnabout Intruder is only ONE little example of Trek's fall from grace in that department. So let's not get into the comparison thing.

Fiction and entertainment should not be judged on a scale of 1) reality and 2) morality. If they were, the Illiad would never be held in the high esteem it is today. Not that I'm comparing Stepehenie Meyer to Homer, mind you
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Old July 3 2010, 06:56 AM   #45
indranee
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse - Discussion and Grading

Dream wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
The National Review wrote:
More than once, Edward and his family look the other way — or even provide assistance — when fellow members of their species hunt humans, just as long as those humans aren’t people they know.
...
What a very strange thing to say.

They are VAMPIRES! To nearly all vampries, human beings on at the bottom of the food chain. The vampire leaders themselves, the Volturi, feed on humans. In the books, the Cullen family are considered odd by other vampires because they refrain from human blood. If they started protecting humans everywhere it would be if one of us tried to protect all cows in the world from being slaugthered. They are not responsible for what other creatures like them do.
Well, India and Indians do try, but then America and the rest of the world makes fun of them 'cos they protect the cow

The Cullens, as you said, are "odd". They are considered unique by other vampires and, if people read the book, they would realize that at the heart of the Volturi "invasion" at the end of the movie was a plot by the Volturi and the newborns to do away with the Cullens, not just Bella. Bella is not that significant in the scheme of things. The Cullens are considered the real threat by the Volturi.

Jake and his wolfpack threw a wrench into that plan because the newborns were pretty much a nonentity at the end of the battle.
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