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Old October 24 2010, 12:37 PM   #271
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Now here's a crowdpleaser!
SMILE TIME

The Good;
It's all fabulous, a truly, truly great episode and I'm proud to say I do own a puppet Angel doll (unfortunately the one with him in vampface as all the rest were sold out).
The Bad;
?
Best line;
Polo; "I'm going to tear you a new puppet-hole bitch!" (a line never before said on TV and in all probability never will be again)
also like;
Puppet Angel; "I'm made of felt. And my nose comes off!" (as above)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The bit where the puppets make their creator 'talk to the hand', euugghhh!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Cute children's puppets are EVIL! Also like the talk between Gunn and Lorne with Framkin where he correctly points out that actually the public would invariably support him if their case ever came to trial. Puppet Angel's Jerry Bruckheimer style 'power walk' also hilarious.
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18,
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out: Angel by the nest egg
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 9
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 6
Spike; 5
Kills; 1 demon for Angel, 2 for Gunn and 1 for Wes
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 63 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 15 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 7 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang; puppet Angel
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2265
Recurring characters killed;
11
Total number of Angel Investigations; 6,
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Fred uses one of Wes' 45s to good effect (maybe they've learned their lesson from Lineage?). She's a good shot but then she is from Texas.
Wes; 11
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 4

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Nina and Angel start to grow closer and closer. Naked Nina in her cell showing an awful lot of flesh after returning to human once more "Oh my god, I ate him!" Hmmmmm? Flora the puppet says she wants to get Gunn's 'Pretty eyes'. Fred thinks puppet Angel is cute. Nina seems to now enjoy being naked and locked in a cage. She thinks the whole vampire thing is kinda sexy although she admits that's a cliche for an art-school chick.
Polo's line to the little kid 'Get over here and touch it' is a bit suspect especially the way he moans and groans when he's draining the lifeforce and talks about taking their innocence away.
Captain Subtext;
Angel has been utterly oblivious to Nina's growing attraction to him but it's perfectly plain to everyone else, even souless Harmony. He does however pick up on the Wes/Fred vibe.
Know the face, different character; 7 David Fury, writer, producer, director and now actor. He previously played the goat-sacrificer in Epiphany and the mustard on his shirt guy in Once More with Feeling.
Parking garages;
9,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
What the fanficcers thought; .
People being transformed by curses all the rage in the Buffyverse.[FONT=Arial] I remember one where a pseudo Buffy/Dawn (Fluffy and Kelly or something?) are prematurely aged by a demons curse but in the follow up story they touch each other and the magical link between them restores their youth whilst draining the lifeforce from the demon. They then stick him in an old folks home and occasionally pop in to tease him (you really can't write a darkfic that there isn't a happy ending to). Also of course in season 8 Dawn become a giant/living doll/centaur although frankly I think the latter was just an excuse to draw topless pictures of Michelle Tractenberg.
[/FONT]Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Especially love the way that Horatio can convey whole sentences in just a few sounds, Chewbacca style. Also you note that Groofus is beginning to be more and more won over to humanity (a common theme in Buffy/Angel), actually caring about the quality of the show in addition to their soul-sucking. David Fury is pretty good in his role. Fred shoots down Knox whom as we'll see doesn't take rejection well. It's been 4 months since Unleashed. Puppet Angel does pretty well against Spike. The last few seasons of Happy Days are referenced where Fonzie famously 'jumped the shark' (a sly joke for the Angel audience and critics who might think Angel is past it's best? Or the WB executives?) In an otherwise extremely lightweight episode we have the beginning of the fall of Charles Gunn, the senior partners having given him these new abilities he revels in and then forcing him to make moral compromises when they start slipping away from him.
Presumably the camera crews etc we see are actually the real Angel camera crews? Why no commentary?
Marks out of 10; 10/10, it's eps like these that make Buffy and Angel so special.
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Old October 24 2010, 05:48 PM   #272
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

SMILE TIME.









saturn5 wrote: View Post
Best line;
Polo; "I'm going to tear you a new puppet-hole bitch!" (a line never before said on TV and in all probability never will be again)
also like;
Puppet Angel; "I'm made of felt. And my nose comes off!" (as above)
In addition to Nina's "Oh my God, I ate him!" I like the above and Fred's "That was a signal.".

More caps for this episode here.
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Old October 24 2010, 09:03 PM   #273
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Just watching you screencaps makes me laugh out loud!
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Old October 25 2010, 09:16 AM   #274
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

A HOLE IN THE WORLD
 
The Good;
Some very worthy stuff here, lovely Spike/Angel and Fred/Wes stuff. Gunn starts to realise the price he's paid for his mind upgrade. Especially love the moment when Fred sings and Lorne reacts, reading her future.
The Bad;
The White Room scene seems very unnecessary
Best line; has to be;
Fred; "Wesley, why can't I stay?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Considering what happened to Glenn Quinn the Burkles remarks about 'Junkie movie stars' are a little tasteless. Also Wes kneecapping the guy who just wanted his fax. Needless to say, hard to watch Fred suffer.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Fred isn't concerned by the sword sticking through Angel but wants the specimen on it
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18,
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out: Fred passes out
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 9
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 7
Spike; 5
Kills; going to let Fred go out with a bang and give her a dozen demon babies from the nest. Also one for Wes and one for Spike. 4 of Drogyn's demon guards each for Spike and Angel.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang; Fred to Illyria
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 3
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2265
Recurring characters killed; goodbye Fred, liked you but never loved you as I did say Willow. Still, sad to see you go.
12
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5,
Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat; literally as here we have Fred as Ripley (before Alien3 ruined the series) packing a flamethrower whilst Wes has his shotgun and a 45 later
Wes; 12
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Do Wes and Fred have sex? She implies he's never been there before, do they have sex? Maybe
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Fred hints she's had group sex with the varsity lacrosse team. She says she's joking but you know she was doing a lot of weed back then. Fred is in effect orally raped by the essence of Illyria which then gestates inside her, taking over her body (again, very like Aliens)
Captain Subtext;
Spike; "You think we should annoy other people?" Couple or what? Spike thinks James Bond's tux is poncey. Say that to his face? Angel doesn't know about Wes/Fred just as he didn't know about Fred/Gunn. Spike and Angel hold hands, hmmmm? They refer to St Petersberg where Anyanka and Halfyrek also hung out, wonder if it was at the same time?
Know the face, different character; 7
Parking garages;
9,
Guantanamo Bay;
Lorne hits Eve. Didn't see that coming just as Lindsey won't in NFA
Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes;
According to the commentary this show was very long so plenty of scenes to be restored on a DVD extra
Questions and observations;
For my money the astronauts win, they've everything the cavemen have plus science and technology. Lots of Aliens imagery, Fred with a flamethrower, the critters at the beginning, even the 'cow-pat' emblem on the sarcophagus looks a bit like a facehugger curled up. Lovely Wes and Gunn moment over Fred, Gunn almost has you going for a bit. Knox is also very believable. Is Fred mesmerised by the sarcophagus crystal as Buffy was in Helpless? Spike and Angel have never flown in a plane before and seem nervous about it. Their bonding on the plane is lovely. They speak of returning to the UK as the mother country, obviously a long time since they've been home. Spike didn't like Les Mis, neither did I, rather see Wicked again. Like Dianne Warren though and I think secretly Gunn does too.
Marks out of 10; 8/10 good ep but hard to watch
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Old October 25 2010, 11:01 PM   #275
Wereghost
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

A HOLE IN THE WORLD.





saturn5 wrote: View Post
Spike; "You think we should annoy other people?" Couple or what?
I found that bit funny. Spike is just having a laugh, of course. Well, probably.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Spike and Angel hold hands, hmmmm? They refer to St Petersberg where Anyanka and Halfyrek also hung out, wonder if it was at the same time?

Double-dating? But I'm nearly sure that Spike and Anya were never an item before Entropy, so...
Er, okay, time to move on.


saturn5 wrote: View Post
For my money the astronauts win, they've everything the cavemen have plus science and technology.
I concur about the astronauts winning; they would be physically fit, well fed, highly trained, ambitious and versatile. (NB - This doesn't apply to Battlestar Galactica. We all know how that turned out. )


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Spike and Angel have never flown in a plane before and seem nervous about it. Their bonding on the plane is lovely. They speak of returning to the UK as the mother country, obviously a long time since they've been home.
Well, Spike does. The UK was created in 1801, so technically Angel was never a British subject. Could be that Spike is teasing him. Wait, here we go with that innuendo thing again...


A Hole In The World is, amongst other things, visually a very striking episode with less of the usual rough-and-tumble and more of the two-handers and tracking shots; really good for screencaps in addition to being funny, clever and poignant.

Incidentally,like many other Angel stories this one has been adapted to the comic book medium.
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Old October 26 2010, 04:50 AM   #276
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

A quick off-topic posting to mention that I just shared a flight from Heathrow to Vancouver with Mark Lutz, aka the Groosalugg.

He was, naturally, gorgeous.

I tried following him into the bathroom in the arrivals hall, but alas I did not manage to see anything interesting.
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Old October 26 2010, 05:11 AM   #277
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Man, I LOVE this episode and the one that follows. It absolutely breaks my heart to see Fred die, but I love that Amy Acker wasn't removed from the show. I enjoy her portrayal of Illyria almost as much as Fred.
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Old October 26 2010, 09:38 AM   #278
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Yeah met Mark Lutz at a convention and one handsome guy. Didn't follow him to the bathroom though which I consider a little bit stalkerish...

Actually the UK starts to take shape with England and Wales as a joint kingdom (which is why the cross of St George on the Union flag represents both). Scotland joins at the beginning of the C18th having had a joint monarchy with England from James 1st and the Irish Parliament votes for full union at the beginning of the C19th. So as you say Liam became Angelus BEFORE the formal union but they're both from the British Isles and would have had a couple of centuries to adapt to their new national identity



SHELLS
 
The Good;
Great battles and some real heartbreak for Wes and Gunn. Also like the skeleton key gag.
The Bad;
Why do Wes and co keep attacking Illyria with swords etc when his axe just shatters off her head in the opening scene? Illyria mispronounces 'Offal'. The ending is perhaps a little overly maudlin compared to 'You're welcome'.
Best line;
Harmony; "Sorry boss, if I'd have stopped her in Gunn's office..."
Angel; "Did you get chucked out a window?"
Harmony; "No"
Angel; "Then you're one up on me!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Wes stabs Gunn
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Illyria; "My last high priest was taller"
plus Angel doing his 'save humanity' speech only for Wes to give Knox some Frank Castle style therapy with his Colt 45 (and I'm not talking about the beer!)
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18,
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out: Wes by Illyria
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 10
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 7
Spike; 5
Kills; Wes kills Knox
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 3
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2265
Recurring characters killed;
12
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5,
Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot: although it's a wonder, they run in front of their SWAT team's guns?
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Wes armed to the hilt this ep
Wes; 13
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Knox's mum thought he was reading porn. Let this be a lesson to us all, let your children read porn otherwise they'll turn into the crazed acolyte of an ancient demon warrior-goddess who plots to destroy humanity. Illyria strips in front of Knox. Spike agrees Harmony has a degree in tearing things up, his back? Angel refers to Jasmine violating CC. Harmony fancied Knox.
Captain Subtext;
Harmony has great insight for a vamp, telling Wes the girl of his dreams loved him. She also comments that Knox's Rick Springfield screensaver opens a whole new bunch of questions.
Know the face, different character; 7
Parking garages;
9,
Guantanamo Bay;
Everyone tortures everyone else, it's the Spanish inquisition! Love the way Wes is glad that Knox is tortured even before he knows Knox is a traitor.
Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Note the weapons lined up by Fred's bedside. Harmony talks of her 'pound of flesh', a term from The Merchant of Venice which also features a climactic courtroom scene. Lornes isolation gradually growing. Willow is in Tibet, looking up Oz? Wes comments "Never a witch around when you need one", his wife of course Alysson Hannigan. 'Old ones' very Babylon 5 term. Note with the exception of Harmony who isn't part of AI Angel is now an all-male production? Is Fred's soul actually destroyed? Is that possible?
Knox comments that humans have conquered demons through opposable thumbs, fire, TV and sneakiness. Guess that settles the whole astronauts vs cavemen debate, the astronauts win out. Illyria know's WR&H of old? She could be a mine of info on them. Do you think she knew Glory too? She learns the hard way that the ravages of time wait for no man and can even bring a goddess to her knees. We see Wes pack away Fred's Roy Rogers commemorative plate which she mentioned to Knox about in an earlier ep. AI seems to rapidly be becoming the place for people with nowhere else to go. Harmony makes herself incredibly useful in this ep, even figuring out the cellphone messages.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Old October 26 2010, 08:26 PM   #279
Wereghost
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Actually the UK starts to take shape with England and Wales as a joint kingdom (which is why the cross of St George on the Union flag represents both). Scotland joins at the beginning of the C18th having had a joint monarchy with England from James 1st
Dang! Well, you know what I meant.
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Old October 27 2010, 08:43 AM   #280
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Yeah met Mark Lutz at a convention and one handsome guy. Didn't follow him to the bathroom though which I consider a little bit stalkerish...
Says the guy with the rape fantasy obsession.

Anyway, I prefer to think of it as merely being thorough.
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Old October 27 2010, 09:17 AM   #281
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Yeah met Mark Lutz at a convention and one handsome guy. Didn't follow him to the bathroom though which I consider a little bit stalkerish...
Says the guy with the rape fantasy obsession.

Anyway, I prefer to think of it as merely being thorough.
1. Guy?
2. No prude, people want to dress up and play the viking and the princess fine but hardly an obsession?

UNDERNEATH
 
The Good;
All the Lindsey stuff is great and love the appearance of Marcus and everyone's reaction to it. Love the Spike/Angel conference complete with beer.
The Bad;
How does Lindsey know Fred and Cordy are dead? Or is he referring to Doyle and Gunn? You can see the perspective gag when Marcus punches through the security guard. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake.
Best line;
Angel; "Bad things always happen here, Spike"
Spike; "Hate to break it to you mate but bad things happen everywhere"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Lindsey/Gunn have their own personal torture chamber. Spike just picks up the hearts with his bare hands.
Apocalypses: 5 Spike and Angel have a discussion over what qualifies as an apocalypse. Lindsey informs them they're actually living in an apocalypse.
Angel Cliches
Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Marcus doesn't want to fight, just to get Eve to sign her contract.
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Lorne takes the bullets out of Spike
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 10
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 7
Spike; 5
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang; suburban Gunn
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 3
Wes; 1
Gunn; 2
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed: poor WR&H security guard
2265
Recurring characters killed; Eve realises that she's going to die just like Anya in Buffy.
12
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5,
Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot: Spike and Angel
Angel: 15
Wes; 2
Spike; 1
Packing heat; not the gang but you've got to love a series with Uzi toting soccer moms! (Sarah Palin?)
Wes; 13
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Spike talks about 'pounding the neighbours wife'.
Captain Subtext;
Angel and Lorne comment on how well dressed Marcus is. Lindsey's wife is very reminiscent of Darla, you wonder if Angel and Spike are thinking that when then they open the door. Gunn obviously wants to be punished. Illyria says 'We' are so weak?
Know the face, different character; 7
Parking garages; oh yeah
10,
Guantanamo Bay;
Harmony has been told 'No torture' by Angel. Lorne is shocked when Angel reveals he left Gunn behind. The Wrath!
Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Spike refers to Knightrider, he shouldn't have teased the Geeks! Spike asks what the collective name for the Angel gang is, we never quite decided, like AI and the Fang Gang personally. It's actually Spike who comes up with the idea of talking to Eve. Harmony in the title sequence, how great, MM in the show right from the pilot, now a regular. They talked about the Lorne Green idea before in Happy Anniverasry. Am I missing something about Wes' joke? The world without shrimp is referenced again, this time the world with it. Eve is the child of the senior partners but doesn't even know who or what they are? But surely Illyria does? Are all the inhabitants in the holding dimension prisoners? Do we ever see Gunn in his suit again? And he's shaved his head. Surely he must wear a suit for court? The partners obviously think a lot of Lindsey, keeping him alive to decide if he'll still be useful. What does 'blocking' mean? It's been 4 months since 'You're welcome'. Gunn actually comes across really well as the family man. Does Marcus represent the WB suits who cancelled Angel?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 for the holding dimension stuff alone
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Old October 28 2010, 11:26 AM   #282
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

ORIGIN

The Good;
Great final confrontation and like the way that Spike is so possessive of his clipboard. Powerful performance from Wes who grows ever more derranged as he suspects Angel has betrayed them.

The Bad;
?

Best line;
Connor; (eying Illyria) "Sorry, always had a thing for older women"
Angel; (muttering) "They were supposed to fix that"
Connor; "What?"
Angel; "Nothing"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Gunn has his heart ripped out on a daily basis.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19,
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 10
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 7
Spike; 5

Kills; Angel kills at least 5 demons, Connor kills 2
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 72 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 3
Wes; 1
Gunn; 2
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2265

Recurring characters killed;
12

Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Wes refers to them running out of people.
Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 15
Wes; 2
Spike; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 13
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Spike refers to Illyria as a 'filthy harlot'. Connor fancies her, once again a thing for older women, a teenage boy's lust so powerful even magic can't change it. Illyria wants to keep Spike as her pet.

Captain Subtext;
Marcus tells Angel he and Angel won't be having sex on the couch 'anytime soon'. But doesn't rule it out entirely? Angel's 'Do I look 500?' joke perhaps a comment on immortal Angel looking noticeably older. Check out the little look Illyria gives Harmony as she walks out of Wes' office. Hmmmm? Connor wonders if Sajhan wants to kiss him?

Know the face, different character; 7

Parking garages;
10,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.

What the fanficcers thought; .
A few nice fics regarding what would happen is Connor and Dawn hitched up. What would the children of the son of 2 vampires and The Key be like?

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Never liked Connor but much like Riley in 'As You Were' he's much easier to accept in small doses. Anne Rice bashed. Good! Was it Cyrus Vail that made Sajhan incorporeal? What courage Gunn shows although you'd have liked to have heard what Marcus was going to offer him? You forget that Sajhan never met adult Connor so has no idea who he is. Does everyone now remember about Connor or just Illyria, Connor and Wes?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 here begins the rehabilitation of Connor for me frankly
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Old October 28 2010, 03:01 PM   #283
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Not RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Man, I LOVE this episode and the one that follows. It absolutely breaks my heart to see Fred die, but I love that Amy Acker wasn't removed from the show. I enjoy her portrayal of Illyria almost as much as Fred.
Yeah, I was really hoping for at least a Season 6 so we'd get a sense for how Joss might blend the two characters (Illyria/Fred) into the show. I think it would have been primarily Illyria with shades of Fred creeping in now and then but it's hard to say.
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Old October 28 2010, 05:16 PM   #284
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

label wrote: View Post
Not RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Man, I LOVE this episode and the one that follows. It absolutely breaks my heart to see Fred die, but I love that Amy Acker wasn't removed from the show. I enjoy her portrayal of Illyria almost as much as Fred.
Yeah, I was really hoping for at least a Season 6 so we'd get a sense for how Joss might blend the two characters (Illyria/Fred) into the show. I think it would have been primarily Illyria with shades of Fred creeping in now and then but it's hard to say.
Yeah, it's interesting and a great performance from Amy as she is able to swap so effortlessly between Illyria and Fred in the final few episodes, especially interesting in regard to the multipile personalities we see in Dollhouse, maybe that's where they got the idea.
But more on that in the final few eps
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Old October 29 2010, 03:58 PM   #285
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

TIME BOMB
The Good;
Great performance from mad Wes and lovely scenes between him and Gunn making up
The Bad;
In any show featuring time travel it's always a bit of a cheat to kill characters knowing you can just click your fingers and bring them back.
Best line;
Marcus; "Curing cancer Mr Pryce?"
Wes; "Wouldn't be cost effective. I'm sure we make a lot of money from cancer"
Marcus; "True, the patent holder is a client"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The Breathren want to feed their baby messiah consecrated urine and panda meat. I'm not sure which is worse?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Subverting the Hollywood cliche; evil demon Fell Breathren all paternal (and rather camp?) about the coming baby. They also like organic cola.
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19,
Cheap Angel; 8
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 10
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 7
Spike; 5
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 72 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 3
Wes; 1
Gunn; 2
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2265
Recurring characters killed; everyone but then they come back
12
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5,
Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 15
Wes; 2
Spike; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 13
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Gunn suggests they keep Illyria in a leash. Spike refers to 'Dear Penthouse'.
Captain Subtext;
Illyria says that adaptation is compromise and Spike teases her about learning and the Internet. Again, we see why humans rule the world and demons don't.
Know the face, different character; 7
Parking garages;
10,
Guantanamo Bay;
Suspicion of each other has started to pull AI apart, they don't trust each other anymore?
Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.
What the fanficcers thought; .
Angel travelling in time used by many fanficcers to rescue characters from all sorts of trouble.
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Wes suggests they keep Illyria as an asset and he's to be proven correct. Jamie Bergman of course is Mrs Boreanaz and a Playboy Playmate. Has she turned up in Bones yet? Anyone else worry that Wes is slowly becoming Illyria's high priest? Marcus suggests that Angel has gone from front runner in the earning stakes to back of the pack, a hint of Angel's history at the WB? When did the 1000 year war begin? Anyone else think that Illyria reminds you of Lady Gaga? Jim Jones was a religious cult leader who led his followers into mass suicide in the South American jungle.
Here Angel get's the idea for the story arc in the last few eps.
Marks out of 10; 7/10 I think the Illyria storyline drags on too long
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