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Old September 23 2010, 05:26 AM   #241
lvsxy808
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Location: London
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
SLOUCHING TOWARDS BETHLEHEM
Just rewatched this last night, and came away with some more clever and subtle foreshadowing...
 
CC sings The Greatest Love of All which she also sang in Buffy's The Puppet Show.
And what are the lyrics to that song?

"I've got the Greatest Love of All, inside of me..."

I'd say Jasmine considers herself the greatest love of all, wouldn't you?
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Old September 23 2010, 10:48 AM   #242
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I hadn't thought about it like that but maybe?

PLAYERS
 
The Good;
I like this ep, nice to see that Gunn isn't just 'The Muscle', he's suave as well as tough. The best Gunn-centric ep and you could see J. August as James Bond. Love Gunn's little look when Wes goes 'Well the last time this happened..."
The Bad;
Quite humdrum in places, actually drags a bit
Best line;
Gunn describes the last few months of AI as a 'Turgid supernatural soap-opera'.
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; the little girl isn't in danger, Gwen has screwed Gunn over
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 5
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+4 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 13 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC, Connor,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 1
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Packing heat; Wes with his shotgun again
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Gunn and Gwen, Gunn presumably not only having sex with her but taking her virginity if he's the first person ever able to touch her?
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Lorne refers to a female friend Wanda as a 'peach'. Gwen in her customary tight PVC outfits. Wes explains his tryst with Lilah to Fred, he was lost and cut off from those he loved as indeed was she.
Captain Subtext;
Gwen calls Fred a babe and honey, obvious tension between the 2.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Plenty of demon pregnancy fanfics, a subsection of fanfiction/fanart called GOT-fic, beautiful women being ravished and impregnated or sometimes consumed ('Vore') by monsters, aliens, mutated plants etc (think Princess Leia and Jabba the Hutt, The Evil Dead or Alien vs Predator; Requiem). Also of course Willow having sex with snake demon in the comics. PM me if you want the links. Plenty of fic out there where Gwen joins AI or if the original gang is destroyed helping the new champion form their team or she (and the Groo) show up to save everyone from everything
Taboo Comics have a pornographic web-comic series where Buffy fantasises about a world where she isn't the Slayer. She and Willow end up pregnant slaves in a demon brothel but in the follow up story eventually get bored with it, poison their masters and go into business for themselves, delighting in all the demon sex they want part time plus enjoying their normal lives at home and at Sunnydale High into the bargain
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Only a few weeks after becoming a dad Angel is now faced with becoming a grandfather! 'Dramarama' is referred to, an old supernatural British kids TV series which Joss Whedon may have seen growing up in the UK. 'Clash of the Titans' also referred to. Angel and Wes refer to 'The last time' CC got supernaturally knocked up both in Expecting and Epiphany. 8 million people in LA, didn't think it was that big. Not only did Angelus not kill Lilah he never actually killed anyone but a vamp? Andy Hallet in the titles, hooray! The last time we'll see Gwen whom was obviously supposed to be a possible regular but they went another way. A pity but at least we see her in the comics. For my money after this ep I figure she goes to see her parents and catches up on a lifetime's worth of hugs. Gunn's love of suits foretells season 5. We see Angel's photgraphic memory again. CC refers to the Fortress of Solitude, Xander's influence again. At what point does Angel twig CC's betrayal?
Marks out of 10; 7/10 a lightweight ep but probably what we need after all the power of the last few eps
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
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Old September 24 2010, 09:56 AM   #243
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

NSIDE OUT
 
[FONT=Times New Roman]The Good;
If nothing else the evil CC versus Darla is so powerful it would get this ep an 8 by itself. But AI versus Skip is also great.
The Bad;
The spell seems to require extremely little blood, if they'd just cut her arm they could probably have had enough.
Best line;
Skip; "Well that ain't right!" (as Wes puts a bullet through his brain)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The sacrifices' pleading is just HORRIBLE, she reminds you of Dawn held hostage by Glory ("I just want to go home") but there's no Buffy coming to save her (although in fairness the PTBs do try their best). Can't watch them killing her, this poor girl.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; Connor doesn't save the sacrifice. For once Wes' guns actually work.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Angel, Wes, Fred and Lorne all knocked out
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 1
Kills; 1 vamp for Connor, one demon for Wes
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 13 demons+4 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 14 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: possessed Angel and Connor
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations: Connor and CC out
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: Wes catches a ricochet from his own pistol
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
 
Packing heat; Wes uses his 45's again, he must be a hell of shot to stick one right in Skip's brain.
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Fred refers to 'whipping' and 'spanked'. Naked Gina Torres plus naked CC doing her Lizzie Borden impression (well Manny wanted to die having a lapdance).
Captain Subtext;
Note Fred's little 'Nice suit' comment when Gunn comes back to the hotel, it IS a nice suit but there's obviously some jealousy there
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Plenty of demonic pregnancies for all the Buffyverse girls in fanfic/fanart http://taboo.eroticillusions.com/free/ or http://galaxy-of-terror.com/ But as we see with Doyle, Buffy and Faith and all the other Slayers with their demonic essence, Cordy from season 3 of Angel and plenty of other examples it's not always a bad thing, the kids aren't necessarily evil, sometimes nurture over nature. The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world. And mother is the name for god upon the lips of all her children even if they're hor...ahem, even if they have horns.
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Poor Connor, boy he's put through the wringer in this one. Connor doesn't want to believe it's Angel, Skip refers to Buffy. So, is the vision that appears to Connor the real Darla brought from the afterlife by the PTBs or is it the First Evil who doesn't want Jasmine mucking up it's plans? Either suggestion is perfectly valid. So how much has AI been manipulated all these years? Shades of classic Dr Who. Angel's attempt to kill CC is reminiscent of Buffy killing him in Becoming pt2
Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Old September 24 2010, 08:20 PM   #244
lvsxy808
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Location: London
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
8 million people in LA, didn't think it was that big.
The city borders of Los Angeles are half the size of the entire country of Belgium. So that's fairly big.

Andy Hallet in the titles, hooray!
I really don't understand why it took them so long. As far as I'm concerned, Lorne has clearly been one of the gang since the beginning of season 3 - if not earlier, beginning of season 2 maybe. He's appeared in almost every episode in that time, and had numerous story points revolve around him. It's not like he's superfluous to the show at all. And yet Fred and Connor both ended up in the credits before he did. Even now, he was only put into the credits because Joss was scared that the show was going to be cancelled at the end of season 4 and wanted to be fair to him.
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Old September 25 2010, 08:27 AM   #245
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Well he did better than Amber Benson, in the show for three years and get's in the titles once before her character is killed off!

SHINY HAPPY PEOPLE
The Good;
Gina Torres is great. Certainly this is an ep that turns things on it's head!
The Bad;
Just because Jasmine's true face is ugly is that any reason to presuppose she's actually evil? I mean Lorne is pretty unconventional looking but he's a good guy?
Best line;
Fred; "There's been too much dismembering going on in that basement recently!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Jasmine's true appearance and severed head bowling.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 1
Kills; 3 vamps and 1 demon for Angel, 1 vamp and 1 demon for Wes, 2 vamps for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 58 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil: not so much evil as happily enslaved
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: possessed Lorne, Gunn, Fred and Wes
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations: CC out of it until season 5, Connor back in
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Connor

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes;2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Like the way you can spot CC's Sunnydale High cheerleader trophy in her room. Note that Angel now wears a lighter coloured shirt now he's no longer haunted all the time. The bowling scene is reminiscent of Fright Night pt2 (which features Buffy alumni Brian Thompson).
Well, Angel throws us another ball from leftfield, not so great in itself but speaks of interesting things to come.
Marks out of 10; 6/10
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Old September 27 2010, 11:01 PM   #246
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

THE MAGIC BULLET
 
The Good;
All of open mic night is classic but Connor and Angel singing 'Oh Jasmine' to the tune of Mandy is so funny it makes me want to lie on the floor kicking my legs in the air with laughter! Whatever they paid to use the Beach Boys it's well worth it.
The Bad;
So Fred just happens to fall down a slope and into a demon's lair who gives her the idea for defeating Jasmine? I guess we could just put this down to the PTBs. Personally I find the demon scenes boring and gross. Why doesn't Fred try to blow Jasmine's head off? The mind control books seem to burn very fast.
Best line;
Angel; "Someone has to go and get Connor"
Wes; "I'll do it. After all I've kidnapped him before"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Finger food and religious zealots on fire!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Fred at the shop, possibly Gunn and Wes
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; 1 demon for Fred
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 58 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: possessed Lorne, Gunn, Fred and Wes
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Connor

Angel Investigations shot: yep, Angel by Fred
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Fred a dab hand with her .357 Magnum she takes from the shop
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The couple who spot Fred at the motel appear to be an amazingly voluptuous hooker and her trick, even Jasmine can't stop the world's oldest profession.
Fred kisses Angel. Angel kisses a sleeping CC (aaaawwwwww!).
Captain Subtext;
Lorne says that Jasmine 'Walked off the street and came into my ass' then hurriedly explains that's where his heart is.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Actually Jasmine is correct, Lee Harvey Oswald did act alone when he killed Kennedy. Holtz used to tie Connor to a tree and then Connor would have to free himself and track Holtz down. Talk about tough love!
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Not much, paradise on earth actually pretty boring
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Lovely idea that the woman Gunn and Wes mistake for Fred got her first ever TV job on Angel, I would have pegged her for AA's stand in. The bookseller rather reminds of the character of Denver from season 2 and Hank Azaria. Lorne refers to himself as Judas just as Lilah said Wes was. Love Lorne's baseball bat. Does CC get paid just to come in to work and lie down and go to sleep? When Jasmine's not at the hotel her power over AI seems to fade a little. You wonder if Angel got his CC's blood idea from Buffy and Dawn in 'The Gift'? When CC grabs Angel's hand is Fred telling him the truth about coma patients involuntary movements or just telling him what she need's him to hear? It's a small line in a big show but Angel seems to finally have forgiven Wes over the whole Connor kidnap. Possibly the longest ep of Angel ever at nearly 42 minutes
Marks out of 10; 7/10 I think
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Old September 28 2010, 12:57 AM   #247
lvsxy808
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Location: London
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Does CC get paid just to come in to work and lie down and go to sleep?
Basically, yes. As a regular cast member she's contracted to appear in 22 episodes, so she appears in 22 episodes. But she was so heavily pregnant at the time that she negotiated with the writers to just be in a coma for the last five episodes. That's the whole reason for Jasmine herself existing at all.
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Old September 28 2010, 10:37 AM   #248
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Inventive, better than trying to just hide it all the time 

SACRIFICE

The Good;
The Critter in the sewers rather like Golum crossed with a giant tarantula and is truly scary. Gotta say I'm getting a little tired of the Jasmine storyline and I'll be glad when it's over

The Bad;
Jasmine's real face looks obviously rubber although the genuine maggots distract you from that. Again seems a huge coincidence that Angel and co fall into the sewers and discover just what they need. Once again the PTBs at work? I actually think that once they go down the sewers the whole ep withers. But the ending picks it up again mightily. Despite Gunn's comment we see exactly 2 police cars and a spotlight with some helicopter sound effects.

Best line;
Gunn; "I ain't never seen so many (police) cruisers"
Wes; "Well technically we're the only criminals left"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The vamp in the web, especially when it gets it tongue ripped out!

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; when Connor and his troops arrive Gunn remarks 'Time for the big fight scene!' echoing what the audience is thinking. Lorne's 'don't judge by appearances' scene cruelly shot down by the refugees.

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cheap Angel; 6

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Wes by the sewer creature
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2

Kills; one demon for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
255

Recurring characters killed;
9;

Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: threatened with guns by Jasmine's soldiers but no
Angel: 12
Wes; 2

Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Whereas the previous people Jasmine consumed were ordinary looking (and the director even commented on it) now it seems to be only pretty young things in their skimpy undies that Jasmine devours.

Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Reputedly the critter in the sewer was played by the same guy who played Wetherby, one of the council's goons, can anyone confirm this?

Parking garages;
6,

Guantanamo Bay;
The Catholic Church is now dedicated to Jasmine and the governer (Schwarzeneger yet?) has handed over his administration to her.

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil

What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
You almost get the feeling that this was getting towards to the end of the season and the budget was running out so they said 'Hey let's put the entire ep in those old tunnel sets, that'll save us enough money for some Lord of the Rings CGI'. Still some nice stuff with the bug and a great climatic cliffhanger.
Lorne mentions that he heard Belieze was nice which is where Riley has been killing demons in seasons 5/6 of Buffy.
Quite honestly do the words 'and the National Guard' ever signify anything good? When the National Guard turn up it's normally a signal that things really can't get much worse. I suppose if you were under fire in Vietnam and some National Guard troops came to help you then it would be a good thing?
I take it it's Connor's blood on Angel's hands? Unless someone can correct me the last we'll ever see of Angel's convertible? Note that at the beginning of the ep Angel is holding off the horde at the door to enable his friends to escape and at the end the situation is reversed.
Marks out of 10; 7/10
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Old September 29 2010, 12:07 PM   #249
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

PEACE OUT
The Good;
It's bad taste but love the 'God is nowhere, Jasmine is the way' sign outside the church. Also love Jasmine picking up the car and love Connor killing her. Angel's quest is also good although the lack of budget shows. It's a small moment but I adore the scene where the blonde reporter is awestruck that Jasmine knows her name, just the little look of exasperation Gina Torres gives is priceless. Plus HERE's LILAH!
The Bad;
Note that when the Guardsmen are clustered around the captive AI the only one without his face covered is the one who Jasmine later speaks through (scene shot out of order?). Angel aside the rest of AI just seem to spend all their time locked in the cellar and don't contribute much. If CC is so precious to Jasmine why is she guarded by exactly 2 cops with pistols and not ringed with troops and tanks? How come the guy Connor tortures gives up his info, surely Jasmine's followers are prepared to die for her? (or has her power faded as she prepares herself for her broadcast?). Note that in the bridge scene the LA sky keeps getting darker and then lighter again between shots.
Best line;
Jasmine (to Angel); "You're not human"
Angel; "Working on it" (indeed he is!)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor kills his 'daughter'. Do we really wonder why he's so screwed up?
Apocalypses: 5 not the end of the world by any means
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage: Lorne, Wes, Gunn and Fred in plasticuffs
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; one demon for Angel, one demon/human(?) for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed: according to Angel thousands have died due to Jasmine's actions
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The way Jasmine eats people is rather reminiscent of vore fetishism (beautiful women enjoying being swallowed whole by giant snakes, carnivarous plants etc). PM me if you want the link.
Captain Subtext;
Connor teases the rest of AI because they're now alone, obvious resentment from when they left him alone.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Angel tortures his way to what he wants without a moments hesitation.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
The blonde reporter in the hotel foyer reminded me at first of Reese Witherspoon and then of Jenny McCarthy but it's neither. The dark haired reporter with the glasses also looks very familar from somewhere. How exactly does Angel manage to materilize exactly back in the hotel foyer? Is the orb programmed to home in on Jasmine? Surely if Angel appeared to everyone on TV worldwide he should be hugely famous?
This of course is an argument similar to that explored in Torchwood; Children of Earth, Jasmine would devour a couple of dozen people a day but if she abolished war, crime and poverty etc she would save millions (apparently 1000 children a day die in India from preventable diseases). But Angel says that the important thing is that mankind has to make it's own choices, learn from it's own mistakes. Interestingly when Angel talks to Jasmine on the bridge he even holds out redemption for her. Jasmine talks about wiping out Angel's species, does she mean humans or vampires? Ok she's pretty strong and can't be killed with electricity but if Connor can just kill her with a fist through the head she's not that tough (not compared to Glory anyway)? Or is that because Connor is her 'father' that he can kill her? Night of the Comet is referenced, a nice little sci-fi film that Joss cites as one of his inspirations for Buffy. Note in the bridge scene there's a company offering 'Facials' which Jasmine certainly needs.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
 
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Old October 1 2010, 11:24 AM   #250
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

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The Good;
Love the way that when Lilah moves at first she seems awkward, as though she's getting used to using her body again.There is just something endlessly, savagely beautiful about a black panther. Love Fred and Lorne dancing. Great fight between Connor and Angel and lovely ending.
The Bad;
Fred's submachinegun is obviously fake, she totes it around like it weighs nothing because of course it's actually just a hollow shell. You can see that the cops beseiging Connor in the sports store aren't LAPD, in fact you can see the word 'Boston' written on the side of their vehicles. Wes and Lilah never get the chance to say goodbye?
Best line;
Lilah; (of Wes trying and failing to burn her contract) "But it means something that you tried" (how BEAUTIFULLY does Stephanie deliver this line?)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor pummeling the cop into unconsciousness is nasty although given what Connor's going to do next maybe he should think himself lucky he just got a few bumps. The terrified hostages at the sports shop are hard to watch as is Angel putting the knife in Connor and even more viciously yanking it out again.
Lilah is in hell and despite all of Wes' efforts she's going to remain there. So sad, she had her chance at redemption and she blew it.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Despite being nochalant about all that WR&H have offered him Angel is hugely excited about his big TV
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 13
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: no but Connor beats the suicidal cop unconscious
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; unless someone can correct me the only ep of Angel ever when not only does no one die but no one even kills anyone/anything?
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Fred with her submachinegun. WR&H seem to have invested in a lot heavier weapons for their new security force, maybe to stop something like The Beast ever happening again?
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
How gorgeous is Gunn's guide, Lacey? Knox tells Fred that WR&H have a dungeon. For prisoners or for S&M shenanigans? Lilah wants Angel to strip in front of her.
Captain Subtext;
It's a small moment but when Lilah refers to 'My Wesley' it just speaks volumes. Nice to know that when the chips are down the way to prove yourself to the girl you love is to cut her head off!
Know the face, different character; 5 Jonathon Woodward who plays Knox here was Holden Webster in the Buffy ep 'Conversations with Dead People'.
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes; If this ep was 9/10 minutes over why can't we get Special Edition Angel DVDs with such footage restored?
Questions and observations;
The last we'll see of Lilah and that is SUCH a shame, Stephanie Romanov has been one of the best things in the series for the last four years. I'd love to see her in the comics (the female boss of the Dollhouse owes much to her, right down to her look). Who's the girl in the picture on the wall behind Wes in his office? WR&H's office now resembles a shopping mall. So is Sirk a genuine defector or a plant from the Watcher's council? Twilight? The Lineage ninjas? Wes has heard of the destruction of the Watcher's Council but probably been too busy to worry about it. Angel knows that Buffy will prevail against evil no matter what the odds. Presumably Gunn taught Connor how to make bombs during the last summer? Angel quite obviously gets the idea for Connor's retrofit from Dawn's origin on Buffy. Wouldn't you love to see Connor get together with Dawn? They have so much in common and it would be cool to see what their kids turn out like? Unless anyone can correct me we'll never see the Hyperion again either. Seigfreid and Roy are referenced, do they own the panther?

WR&H give the amulet to Angel. Now, are they doing this purely to thwart The First's plans or are they now aware that there is a SECOND vampire with a soul and that he might be the one that the prophecies speak off? Is this intended to gain control of Spike but Lindey get's there first? Speaking of whom in Dead End Lindsey warns Angel not to play WR&H's game. For good or ill here he ignores that advice and does exactly that.

Marks out of 10; 10/10, not so much a season ending but a pilot for the new series, a complete reboot. That said if Angel had ended here I'd be disappointed but it would still be a good ending.
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Old October 1 2010, 10:09 PM   #251
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
HOME

Kills; unless someone can correct me the only ep of Angel ever when not only does no one die but no one even kills anyone/anything?
Perhaps not literally. But Angel certainly metaphorically kills this version of Connor (by slitting his throat) to allow the new one to take his place. In other words, the Father kills the Son.

And while we don't see the Hyperion again, we do hear about it. Fred mentions that she can't see it from the windows of her office (quite symbolic) in I think "Unleashed," and they meet at the alley behind it in "Not Fade Away."
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Old October 3 2010, 12:17 PM   #252
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Oh my god, here we go, finished Buffy and now starting the last ever Buffyverse boxset! We are witnessing the passing of an era, 22 eps to go and that's it. Still that is the equivalent of 7 full length feature films

CONVICTION
The Good;
Angel vs the ops team and Charley Gunn/Harmony coming to the rescue. Plus Spanky! Also love the ritual sacrifice gag and Lorne's vetting of the staff (what would you sing?).

The Bad;
Disagree with Joss, evil people never believe they're evil, they always believe they're the justified victims, the Nazis genuinely believed they were saving Europe from a Jewish/Bolshevik plot, Irish Republicans geninely believe Ireland was some kind of oppressed English colony, the Klu Klux Klan thought they were saving white women from rape etc.

Best line;
Goon; (after Angel blows Hauser's head off) "What about mercy?"
Angel; "He got the last of it"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Nasty disease pictures and a vile villain.

Apocalypses: bad for LA but not the rest of the world 5

Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; despite his cynicism towards WR&H and characteristic dourness Angel can't help squealing with joy at the sight of his collection of classic muscle cars (although his yellow charger looks horrible!). On the minus side note that Hauser note only packs a different weapon to the rest of his team but is the only one unmasked for much of the time to distinguish him from the others, such a Hollywood cliche.

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 13

Cheap Angel; 6

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: not on screen but Angel get's knocked out by Caleb whilst visiting Buffy in Sunnydale
Cordy: 15
Angel: 18
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2

Kills; 1 vamp and at least 2 humans for Angel.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 10 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255

Recurring characters killed;
9;

Total number of Angel Investigations; 5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: yep, Angel by Hauser's men
Angel: 13
Wes; 2

Packing heat; Wes' backup plan for the bad guy not getting acquitted is his .45 automatic. How did he get that into the courtroom? Angel kills Hauser using his own shotgun.
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The wonderfully named Spanky who has his own fetish website and lots of S&M gear to prove it. One popular fan theory is that this is the guy Faith used to dress up as a naughty schoolgirl for and let him punish her? He certainly has a bullwhip. (If you like the idea of Eliza Dushku with a whip check out this scene from Dollhouse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCOGkxg_QA and so that SMG doesn't feel left out http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php...122_1125lo.jpg ) When Angel asks if the gang heard about last night Gunn replies "You got lucky?". Harmony does a sexy little shimmy when she basks in the sunlight. Shirtless Gunn. Eve asks Angel what he'd like to have 'passing through her lips' (wait until Life of the Party and you'll find out!)

Captain Subtext;
Spanky doesn't spank men although he's fine with other people liking to (love the characterisation here, he's evil but he's not a bigot, spanking men just isn't his thing). Angel interestingly comments that he has NO problem spanking men. Hmmm? Hauser calls him a fairy.
As Angel walks out of the school we see a series of kids posters above his head proclaiming "Respect, learn, know, show"

Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages; where Angel meets Hauser
7,
Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil

What the fanficcers thought;
Spanky a popular figure in some fanfic circles especially with Faith. In several slash fics Spanky has a slightly different fetish and Angel persuades him to come clean in a very different way.

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
LOVED Space; Above and Beyond, to my shame didn't recognise Rodney Rowland from it (he apparently was Gillian Anderson's boyfriend for a while, he was in the X-files ep with the Jodie Foster voiced tattoo). Remember 'Who watches the birds?' and thought it was brilliant although it actually has loads of dialogue in the flashback scenes. Also like "The Angriest Angel' which the writers of BSG also seemed to like as they freely adapted it for the ep with Scar the Cylon Raider. Loved Kristine Cloke and if they ever need someone to play Jennifer Connelly's sister (or indeed Megan Fox's) she's the girl which is pretty high praise in itself. Too bad they picked the most uncharismatic man in history to play the lead!
David does look a bit fatter at the start of this and his hair more bouffant than ever. Fries won't let his son read The Punisher comics, probably because people like him would be number one on Frank Castle's neverending hitlist. Personally I never noticed the effects of the Bell's Palsy on Alexis, I don't know about you? Love Wes bashing Feng Shui and Lorne's ascots (so that Andy can wear less makeup). Not so sure about his polyester suit look, he looks like he could be appearing on Wonder Woman. Is it just me or do American apples look lovely but taste like cotton? Interesting gag that both the Kennedy's and Bush famillies have made deals with WR&H. If you're going to bash politicians you should do both sides. Note the little flash of the black panther when the screen flashes away from Gunn. For a moment I thought one of the nick-nacks Knox places on Fred's table is the puzzlebox from Hellraiser.
Great to see Harmony back, in the pilot of Buffy and she'll be in the last ep ever of the Buffyverse too! Angel drinks coffee now, he must have taken it up since his Sunnydale days. Presumably Harmony can't really mourn for CC because she has no soul.
What Twilight Zone ep is Joss referring to? Lorne seems a bit interested when Spanky is mentioned? Why does Spanky put on his bathrobe even if he's hot after exercising? To hide the harness for the wire gag his stuntman is about to do? His choke hold is rubbish, a 5 year old could get out of it.
Is Hauser named after Cohegan's duplicitous henchman in Total Recall? Joss is a Law and Order fan, a show MT guested on. Wes know's Spike? They've never met as far as we know, maybe he read up on him after coming to Sunnydale? Fred's lab is the same one we see in the season 3 ep Happy Anniversary.
Joss is a little bit conflicted over his political views. He seems a trendy lefty but someone has obviously pointed out to him that his goodguy characters torture, kidnap and kill for the greater good more ruthlessly than the CIA ever did. His assertion that such things are best left in fiction sounds pretty weak. He also seems pretty knowledgable about The Punisher, probably the most right wing character in the history of comics.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Old October 4 2010, 04:03 PM   #253
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

JUST REWARDS
The Good;
I know it's sick but always laugh out loud at Spike looking at 'bucket-o-lawyer' and telling Gunn and Wes "Your man Novak, he's been, how would you put it? Downsized!". Such an unpleasant storyline yet really it's quite immaterial as this ep really is about Spike and Angel rather than some necromancer.
The Bad;
You can see the dark haired girl in the corpse showroom move slightly when she's standing behind Spike.
Best line;
Spike (looking around Angel's plush digs)"If a certain Slayer could see you now!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Harmony telling Spike he can't be mean to her anymore because they're no longer dating. Oh that girl! Plus 'bucket-o-lawyer' (three buckets actually).
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 14, yep, bit bulkier but still looks good
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: Angel by the Hainsley
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; 2 humans and a demon for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike not really in the gang yet
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 13
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Harmony is revolted by the thought of Spuffy "Slayer loving freak!". Fred thinks Spike is hot. The demon states that he considered other sorts of human bodies to inhabit but eventually he went with pretty as everybody does (anyone else think he sounds like Clem?). Spike suggests the villain is into necrophillia. Spike says he'd like to 'have a go' at Fred and that she looks like a 'goer'.
Captain Subtext;
Spike refers to Angel as poncey and beefcake. Lorne says he sees Depp and Bloom for the Angel and Spike roles but comments he sees them a lot. His remark 'I could sell that movie in a heartbeat' may be a hint at an Angel movie. Angel is jealous that Spike hooked up with his sexy, petite blonde ex. Spike points out that Angel now has HIS sexy petite blonde ex working as his secretary. Also note that when the Groxlar beast attacks Spike goes to help Angel.
Spike refers to himself as Angel's 'date' and says that forehead boy has a 'wide spotty ass'. How would he know? Later on in the season Spike refers to the intimate moment Spike and Angel share together much to the delight of Spanglers everywhere. BUT the moment in question could very well be the scene here where Spike is possessing Hainsly who has his fingers lodged inside Angel?
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages; where Spike meets Angel
8,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
 
Missing scenes;
Reputedly the proposed Faith spinoff would have had Spike in it as her ghostly sidekick.Sadly Eliza decided to make Tru Calling instead.
Questions and observations;
Gunn smokes cigars? We've never seen him do it before and do we ever see him do it again? Note in the teaser you can just see Harmony's hand appear around the doorframe just before we cut to Sunnydale. The last time we'll really see Buffy proper in the Buffyverse. Love the flashback to Spike's going out in a blaze of glory. How come Gunn has heard of Spike but Fred hasn't? Angel is still in touch with Buffy who's now in Europe. Wes seems to have been informed of recent events but not the others? But even he hasn't been told of Spike's soul, everyone at AI keeps secrets. The Littlelest Vampire is mentioned, either a ref to The Little Vampire or The Littlelest Hobo.
So how does the medallion get to Angel? We know it's Lindsey but how does he know about it? Eve or is he maybe in league with Lilah? Angel knows a lot more about Spike than he rightfully should. He's jealous that Spike not only got to have more, ahem, intimate time with Buffy than he did but also that when Spike got his soul he was able to recover from the guilt in a matter of months whilst Angel tortured himself for over a century. Of course this was partly because Spike had help from Buffy and in some ways the rest of the Scoobies but also because he deliberately went out to re-acquire his soul and to be the champion Buffy wanted, he had purpose. And he had 3 years without killing before due to his chip, living more and more in the human world, forced to socialise with them and learning from the experience.
Marks out of 10; 7/10
 
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Old October 5 2010, 03:14 PM   #254
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

UNLEASHED
The Good;
Especially love the gag of Nina asking Angel if he's Frankenstein and Angel self-consciously rubbing his forehead, Spike's taunting must be getting to him. Nice final scene with Angel making sure to anchor himself to the world once more by hanging out with his friends. The Hyperion has also not been forgotten and a sly dig at Scientology.
The Bad;
A little trite that they give the cryptozoologist to the cult to eat but then abolish the club?
Best line;
Nina; "Angel, he saves a lot of girls?"
Fred; "Girls, guys, puppies, he's pretty much an equal opportunity saver" (presumably Fred has been told of Angel's Orpheus flashback)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Nasty scenes with Nina about to be eaten alive
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 14,
Cheap Angel; 7 Lorne remarks that hell has frozen over when Angel says their food is on him
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: Fred by the kidnappers
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 3
Kills; Angel kills one werewolf.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike noticeably absent from the gang at the beginning.
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: Angel by the security guards
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Wes with a pistol and unusually Gunn with a shotgun
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Nina quite reasonably suspects Angel to be a psycho rapist. Well, not lately. Nina naked and chained (anyone else think she looks a little like Sharon Stone?). A fellow student calls and says he missed Nina in the life drawing class which implies she does nude modelling (she certainly has the figure for it).
Captain Subtext;
Wes not so subtly jealous of Knox whom Fred refers to as being 'Under me' and 'On top of'. The comparison of Angel to the werewolf is clear, he cut himself off from humanity to avoid temptation but ended up losing all value for people and lost his human side anyway, just as Angel might have if Doyle hadn't come along.
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages;
8,
Guantanamo Bay;
Angel once again tortures ruthlessly
Buffy characters on Angel; 16. It would have been nice if Caine the bounty hunter had shown up but as the actor had also played Sajhan maybe that was impractical.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Plenty of fic where Oz shows up in LA to help Nina out with what he's learned, if ever there was an ep for him to re-occur on Angel this was it.
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Lorne's reading not too good lately. Here's a good game for you, match the car to the AI member in the opening scene. The guys refer to being at WR&H for a month. Does Angel detect the werewolf by his scent? He's met one before, Oz in Phases. Spike still lies a lot. Different werewolf makeup than what we see in Buffy and thank god, much more impressive! Note though that Nina has amnesia for her first few transformations just as Oz had. Note it's Lorne who figures out how to find Nina. When Fred tells Nina that Angel was seeing someone does that mean CC or Buffy? Lorne makes an 'extra weight' remark of Angel, is that a joke on DB? Wes refers to the Initiative or whatever they call themselves nowadays.
Marks out of 10; 7/10, enjoyable standalone ep, reminds you of the sort of thing they used to do in season 1
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Old October 6 2010, 05:55 PM   #255
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

HELLBOUND
 
The Good;
Great villain, some great Spike stuff and an all round great premise
The Bad;
?
Best line;
Angel (to frozen in time Pavayne) "Don't worry I had them give you a window"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Gory as hell, how did this not get an 18 rating?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 15, Naked Spike.
Cheap Angel; 7
Subverting the cliche; Gunn and Wes always assumed Spike was going to hell
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 3
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed: poor Claire
2256
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, .
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Gunn likes Eve's lovely friend, Claire the mystic. Too bad she doesn't last long. Spike spies voyeuristically on Fred in the shower.
Captain Subtext;
Apparently Spike materialises beside Gunn in the toilet and makes remarks about his penis. What sort of remarks? Claire suggests that Fred and she hold hands if Fred is lonely. Pavayne describes Spike as a 'Little Nancy still crying for his mother', well he's got the last bit right as 'Lies My Parents Told Me Proved'.
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages;
8,
Guantanamo Bay;
WR&H show some REAL inefinite detention
Buffy characters on Angel; 16.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations;
Of course the term Reaper is another supernatural series and he too sends souls to hell. Mercedes McNab guest-starred and at one point the devil goes 'Ooohhh Buffy' when handing Sam a stake to recapture an evil soul who thinks she's a vampire (because there are no vampires in the Reaperverse). Spike refers to the King's English as he's seen 2 Queens in his time (Victoria and Elizabeth 2nd) and 4 kings (Edward 7th, George 5th, Edward 8th, George 6th). Spike calls Angel 'Liam', he knows his backstory. Angel likes Spike's poems, did he continue to write AFTER he became a vampire? Spike suspects that it may be the First Evil tormenting him which seems logical. Spike also says he's been a ghost for months which gives us some timeframe. Love to have seen Lee or some of the other casualties from WR&H over the years as Reaper's puppets. In many ways I think they try to cast Fred as the team glamourpuss but she doesn't really cut the mustard in that regard, Amy Acker a beautiful woman but just doesn't compare to CC, Buffy, Faith etc. Very Christian idea of hell. Eve is actually quite heroic here. Very little Lorne, he's really sidelined this season even if he's now a regular. The fate of Pavayne is very reminiscent of the fate of the 'Family of Blood' in the Dr Who ep of the same name (possibly the best ep ever?), both it and Torchwood drawing a LOT from Buffy and Angel (Angel sunk to the bottom of the ocean by his son, Capt Jack buried alive by his brother). So what happens to Pavayne AFTER the fall of WR&H at the end of the season? When Pavayne says that 'There's hope for you yet boy' when Spike has the choice of being human or rescuing Fred does he mean good Spike or evil Spike? Presumably Fred told Spike about Angel's Manilow obsession?
Marks out of 10; 9/10 very strong ep, great villain, truly creepy and excellent performance from JM
 
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