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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old June 14 2010, 04:05 PM   #1
Kathryn-janeway
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Finished DS9 :(

All i can say is that i really enjoyed all of the seasons, they were some really good and very bad eps, but overall i rate DS9 10 out of 10.

After watching, what you leave behind, all i can is WOW
I thought it was a great way to end the series. This ep is a lot better than voyagers Endgame, it had a lot more closure and didn't seemed rushed.
There's a couple of things i couldn't understand about this ep, so if you can help me id appreciate it

firstly i loved the flashback scenes with all the characters, i just thought that was great, but how come jadiza wasn't in worfs flashback scenes but Erzi was? It just didn't seem right to have Erzi in his flashback :/

Secondly, Why the hell did Sisko stay with the prophets, i thought he completed his mission? or his he dead?

Overall i felt that season 7, was based on Erzi, i can understand that the producers would like to give a background story ect.. but most of the eps were based on her. I enjoyed her character very much, but if Terry didnt leave the show, would these eps still be written for jadzia?
And also this show had a lot of potential they could have easliy made a season 8.

Although, iv got to admit i got sick of Jem'Hadar at times, kind of reminds me of the borg, but im not complaining


Its a shame its come to a end, I was just starting to enjoy my self!
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Old June 14 2010, 04:17 PM   #2
flemm
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Kathryn-janeway wrote: View Post
After watching, what you leave behind, all i can is WOW
I thought it was a great way to end the series.
Yeah, I don't tend to get too sentimental about the shows I watch, but I confess I still reach for a metaphorical hanky whenever I rewatch WYLB.

Apparently there was some friction with Farrell over the use of images of her in the finale, I guess she wanted more money than the studio was willing to offer her, I don't remember the details. It's unfortunate that this couldn't be worked out. Maybe the studio was just being cheap.

As for the focus on Ezri in s7, that is the subject of some controversy to this day on the forum as you have probably noticed in a few of the threads. Ditto for the ultimate fate of The Sisko.

For Jadzia/Ezri (example):
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=123205

For The Sisko:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=122621
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Old June 14 2010, 04:22 PM   #3
Kathryn-janeway
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Thanks very much
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Old June 14 2010, 06:10 PM   #4
TheGodBen
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Kathryn-janeway wrote: View Post
firstly i loved the flashback scenes with all the characters, i just thought that was great, but how come jadiza wasn't in worfs flashback scenes but Erzi was? It just didn't seem right to have Erzi in his flashback :/
The explanation for this goes back a long way. DS9 began while TNG was in its sixth season so the producers thought the show would last at least that long, so all the actors were tied to a six-year contract (which is quite long for a TV contract). At the end of season 6 all the actors had to renegotiate their contracts for the final season, and Terry Farrell wanted a pay-rise that the producers said they couldn't afford. In the end, Terry left it too late and her contract wasn't renewed. She requested that Jadzia remain alive so that she could return as a guest in some season 7 episodes, but the producers decided to kill Jadzia and bring in a new Dax, thereby removing any possibility of her character returning. Terry Farrell was upset about this but left and started a new job on Becker (I think).

Then, in the episode Penumbra, they showed Ezri holding a picture of Jadzia and Worf on their wedding day, but the DS9 producers "forgot" to get clearance from Terry for the use of her image. When she found out she was pissed off and demanded more than the average rate to use her image, money that DS9 had to pay because they had already shown it. So when it came to the finale the producers on DS9 refused to pay to show her image again, because she was pissed at them and they were pissed at her.

It's a common point of contention about the final episode, lots of people complain about the lack of Jadzia in those montages.

Secondly, Why the hell did Sisko stay with the prophets, i thought he completed his mission? or his he dead?
flemm has already linked to the thread, but here's my previous post on the subject:

TheGodBen wrote:
In the original version of the script (which was filmed) Sisko was dead. Well, his body was dead but his consciousness ascended to the Celestial Temple and he was trapped there never to return. After filming it, Avery Brooks had reservations about the image of a black man being seen to abandon his pregnant wife and he feared that it made Sisko into a bad role-model, so he asked for the scene to be rewritten to make it clear that he would return one day. Ira agreed and that's the ending that made it into the episode.

Personally, I prefer the intention of original ending, it works far better with the warning given to him by the Prophets in Sacrifice of Angels and Penumbra. By "removing" the Dominion ships from the wormhole the Prophets began a series of events which caused Dukat to go mad, his madness led him to try to release the Pah-Wraiths, and that led to Sisko sacrificing himself to stop them. "The Sisko is of Bajor, but he will find no rest there." Sisko will never leave the Celestial Temple and will never have the opportunity to built his house on Bajor.

Yes, Sisko did say he would return, but that might have been something he said to Kasidy to keep her spirits up. Or he might not have understood the situation fully and thought that he could return one day. Or he was just lying to himself in thinking he could return to his old life. I like that there's more ambiguity in this ending because all the people that want Sisko to be alive can still see it that way, but as far as I'm concerned Sisko is as good as dead, that was the creator's intention.
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Old June 27 2010, 06:08 PM   #5
Trek_princess
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

I too was sad when DS9 ended - it's my favorite Trek series. I literally cried during What You Leave Behind because of all the sweet flashback scenes (I'm pathetic, I know, not trying to deny it). I wish that there could have been at least one more season. I would have liked to have seen more of Ezri Dax, and I'm curious about Kassidy's baby.

Do any of the relaunch books deal with baby Sisko?
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Old June 28 2010, 11:10 PM   #6
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

I recently started a rewatch from the pilot on. I assumed that I would skip around until maybe season three, because that's when I remember it getting really good...however, I have not only not skipped any season one eps, I have enjoyed them much more than I remember.

I recently started TNG again and had to jump ahead...I just couldn't take the early eps, and I found myself just feeling meh over even the good and excellent eps.

But with DS9, I found the season one stuff to be right on in a lot of areas...fantastic acting between Quark and Odo right away, for one. The second episode about Bajoran political BS was actually interesting and well done, something I never cared for before.

Pleasantly surprised. Where TNG feels like "space dilemma of the week" these guys already feel like things are really mattering.

Can't wait to get even farther along. The last time I watched it through was 2004 btw.
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Old June 28 2010, 11:42 PM   #7
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Trek_princess wrote: View Post
I too was sad when DS9 ended - it's my favorite Trek series. I literally cried during What You Leave Behind because of all the sweet flashback scenes (I'm pathetic, I know, not trying to deny it). I wish that there could have been at least one more season. I would have liked to have seen more of Ezri Dax, and I'm curious about Kassidy's baby.

Do any of the relaunch books deal with baby Sisko?
Oh yes. The title of first post-finale novel (Avatar) actually refers to the baby! (You'll see how on the first pages of the novel.)
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Old June 29 2010, 09:08 AM   #8
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

If they couldn't secure the rights to Ferrell's image in the flashbacks, they should have dumped the whole thing. It was idiotic to show the characters thinking back to all the amazing stuff they did with their DS9 pals, and not have Jadzia in there. She was Sisko's best friend, Kira's best friend, Bashir's 2nd best friend.....and oh, yeah---Worf's frickin' wife! It was petulant of the producers not to just pay Ferrell. For cryin' out loud, they screwed her over in "Penumbra"! Sheesh! Corporate scum.......
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Old June 29 2010, 06:56 PM   #9
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Python Trek wrote: View Post
If they couldn't secure the rights to Ferrell's image in the flashbacks, they should have dumped the whole thing. It was idiotic to show the characters thinking back to all the amazing stuff they did with their DS9 pals, and not have Jadzia in there. She was Sisko's best friend, Kira's best friend, Bashir's 2nd best friend.....and oh, yeah---Worf's frickin' wife! It was petulant of the producers not to just pay Ferrell. For cryin' out loud, they screwed her over in "Penumbra"! Sheesh! Corporate scum.......
Well, while I agree with you that they should have just ponied up and paid Terry Ferrell, I disagree that if they could not reach some agreement with her, the whole montage should have been canceled. It was a great montage even without her, and while adding her would have been a welcome bonus, there WAS, in fact, a Dax in the montage - just not Jadzia Dax. And seeing some of the high points for the rest of the characters was wonderful. Certainly, it was one of my favorite sequences of the entire series, and I am glad it's in there - with or without Jadzia.
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Old June 29 2010, 08:17 PM   #10
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Funny thing, I never knew about the whole background in regards to image rights bickering etc. and I can't say I noticed Jadzia not being in the flashback.... I always assumed they went through Ezri's memories of DS9 because at present, it was Ezri who was alive and it'd make no sense to go through all the past host's memories because it'd make about as much sense as going through Dukat's or Winn's memories... sure they're the bad guys, but the point being is they're dead.

Nor did they go through Sisko's memories (to my recollection anyways) and they instead went through Jake's & Yate's memories instead to fill in that gap.

In regards to Sisko's task... yes it was complete, but the Prophets decided to give him a good old fashion corn-holing at the end and told him he's got more to do later on and needs to "Rest".... and when he was talking to Yates, he beat around the bush on the subject, but as I saw it.... he died... and will eventually pull a Jesus and return someday.

And I understand how you'd see that most of the episodes revolve around Ezri.... they just introduced a new character in the very last season... if they didn't revolve around her as much as they did, by the ending of the show, people would have been even less attached to her character. But the other thing I took from this (whether it was intentional or not) was that while Sisko had to go through losing his old friend when Jadzia came along, and while Jadzia explained that some old friends can not cope with the change..... the viewer only had their imagination to go by in understanding this.

By killing off Jadzia and introducing Ezri, not only did this throw the characters into direct conflict with their old ties with Jadzia (Worf/Bashir/Sisko) but it also threw the viewer into the conflict as well..... as my wife was pretty attached to Jadzia and was pretty pissed when she was killed.... .and she wasn't too fond of Ezri at the start either.

To be honest, besides being cute, I didn't quite like her either.... continually rambling and yammering on and talking about this and that.... she just couldn't shut the hell up.... but after a few of these episodes you speak of, they had room to polish the character off, give more background, to show the similarities that carried over from Jadzia, and she matured into her own person after a bit..... all the while dealing with Jadzia's old friends and husband.

Would they have still had so many episodes about Dax if it was still Jadzia?

Possibly.... she and Worf were supposed to be having a kid together afterall..... and if they didn't focus on Ezri or Jadzia, I'd suspect it'd just be more Ferengi Clown Filler Episodes, which I felt Season 7 have more then enough of those as it was.
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Old June 29 2010, 08:30 PM   #11
RobertScorpio
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

We watched TNG'S BOBW last week. And now, when I watch it, I always cut in and show the battle scene between Locutus and Sisko's ship. Now that we just saw that brief scene, we too are about to restart DS9. I can't say we will watch them all, but what we do watch will be in order.

What You Leave Behind was the best finale of all the modern Trek's, IMO.
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Old June 29 2010, 08:40 PM   #12
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Sisko is very much alive
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Old June 30 2010, 06:29 PM   #13
Praxius
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

GalaxyClass1701 wrote: View Post
Sisko is very much alive
Only in the mind of Benny Russell....

"Call anybody you want, they can't do anything to me, not any more, and nor can any of you. I am a Human being, dammit! You can deny me all you want but you can't deny Ben Sisko – He exists! That future, that space station, all those people – they exist in here! In my mind. I created it. And everyone of you knew it, you read it. It's here. Do you hear what I'm telling you? You can pulp a story but you cannot destroy an idea, don't you understand, that's ancient knowledge, you cannot destroy an idea. That future – I created it, and it's real! Don't you understand? It is real. I created it. And it's real! It's REAL! Oh God!"
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Old June 30 2010, 07:34 PM   #14
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Praxius wrote: View Post
GalaxyClass1701 wrote: View Post
Sisko is very much alive
Only in the mind of Benny Russell....

"Call anybody you want, they can't do anything to me, not any more, and nor can any of you. I am a Human being, dammit! You can deny me all you want but you can't deny Ben Sisko – He exists! That future, that space station, all those people – they exist in here! In my mind. I created it. And everyone of you knew it, you read it. It's here. Do you hear what I'm telling you? You can pulp a story but you cannot destroy an idea, don't you understand, that's ancient knowledge, you cannot destroy an idea. That future – I created it, and it's real! Don't you understand? It is real. I created it. And it's real! It's REAL! Oh God!"
He is with the prophets which are nothing more than aliens to us. You would have to consider them dead too, besides the fact that he said he was alive and that he was coming back.
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Old June 30 2010, 07:48 PM   #15
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Re: Finished DS9 :(

Sisko's alive in the relaunch novels, (something Captain Janeway can't say ).

I remember thinking the end of DS9 (which I haven't seen in years) over did the sentimentality quite a bit. I really missed Terry Farrell in the flashbacks - if it was as simple as not having the rights to show her face, why was there always that wedding pic on display in Worf's quarters? I recall Ezri looking at it at one time.

Best Trek finale for me is TNG's "All Good Things".
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