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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old June 25 2010, 01:07 PM   #91
Christopher
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

^The schedule announcements at Shore Leave weren't any mandated policy, just a habit the editors had gotten into, I think. So nobody would've been "forced" to do anything. We might have a panel this year taking the place of the usual schedule announcement (in function if not in time slot), but that's something we've been discussing voluntarily.

Star Trek Magazine is the official licensed news source for ST, so it seems like the logical place to post the official schedule announcement.
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Old June 25 2010, 05:15 PM   #92
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

With NuTrek being aimed more at the general public rather than old time Trek fans, bypassing the Trek conventions and concentrating more on larger, more general cons like San Diego makes sense.
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Old June 25 2010, 08:20 PM   #93
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Defcon wrote: View Post
Ktrek wrote: View Post
Has this been answered and I missed it? I was wondering why Pocket chose to announce the schedule in this issue of the magazine instead of the traditional announcements at Shore Leave? Kind of stole some of Shore Leave's thunder this year and the usual nook lovers anticipation to the upcoming online reports.

Kevin
Last year trekmovie posted the schedule before Shore Leave, so it's nothing new. I guess that it was mostly Marco who wanted Shore Leave to be the time to announce the schedule.

And as far as I know there will be no editorial representation at Shore Leave this year anyway, so one or several of the author would've been forced to announce the line-up.
Actually for the last couple of years TrekMovie was briefed before hand, but embargoed the article until Margaret/Marco hit the stage at Shore Leave. So anyone at shore leave was getting new info

As there was no Shore Leave presentation this year they went with the Magazine, but we arranged again to do an article that coincided with the release of the mag.
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Old June 25 2010, 09:51 PM   #94
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
With NuTrek being aimed more at the general public rather than old time Trek fans, bypassing the Trek conventions and concentrating more on larger, more general cons like San Diego makes sense.
I dont think it matters. the "general public" isnt likely to buy a Star Trek book where ever it is advertised.
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Old June 25 2010, 10:16 PM   #95
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

MNM wrote: View Post
I dont think it matters. the "general public" isnt likely to buy a Star Trek book where ever it is advertised.
For the most part, no, but a small percentage might be, and that's enough. After all, the current Trek novel audience is about 1 percent of the Trek fanbase, and that's been sufficient to keep the line going for three decades. And the same would go for the other franchises promoted at a "general" con like San Diego -- their book lines only need to draw in a fraction of the total audience.
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Old June 25 2010, 10:18 PM   #96
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

SDCC gets national TV coverage. Shore Leave doesn't.
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Old June 25 2010, 11:44 PM   #97
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Christopher wrote: View Post
their book lines only need to draw in a fraction of the total audience.
I know. I've just never been of the opinion that you'll get any significant increase in people buying stuff like these type of books by choosing to go to a more "mainstream" type of con over a more specific one. The people who have no interest in buying them still wouldnt buy them if you advertsed them during the World Cup final for example.
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Old June 26 2010, 01:20 AM   #98
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
SDCC gets national TV coverage. Shore Leave doesn't.
SDCC gets national media coverage because of all the TV and film stars and related events. Book publishers don't even move the needle so far as tracking activity there. Hell, even comics don't get a fair shake there anymore.
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Old June 26 2010, 01:25 AM   #99
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

MNM wrote: View Post
I know. I've just never been of the opinion that you'll get any significant increase in people buying stuff like these type of books by choosing to go to a more "mainstream" type of con over a more specific one. The people who have no interest in buying them still wouldnt buy them if you advertsed them during the World Cup final for example.
We're not talking about going that mainstream, we're talking about SF/fantasy/comics conventions as opposed to specifically Star Trek conventions. Lots of genre fans are fans of multiple franchises. Many fans of Star Wars or Stargate or Galactica may have lost touch with ST over the years, but had their interest renewed by the new movie, say.

Besides, if you try, you might fail, but if you don't try, you guarantee failure. So how does it make any sense not to try?
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Old June 26 2010, 01:28 AM   #100
kkozoriz1
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Dayton Ward wrote: View Post
kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
SDCC gets national TV coverage. Shore Leave doesn't.
SDCC gets national media coverage because of all the TV and film stars and related events. Book publishers don't even move the needle so far as tracking activity there. Hell, even comics don't get a fair shake there anymore.
True, I should have said national media coverage. However it is a much larger convention with a wider audience than Shore Leave. And you know that there will be people in Star Trek costumes shown over and over.
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Old June 26 2010, 04:07 PM   #101
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Christopher wrote: View Post
So how does it make any sense not to try?
I never said dont try. I just said dont go wasting your time trying to get the mainstream to become insterested, as it wont work and stops you focusing on your core auidence.

The mainstream, and by mainstream I mean the general public that the person I originally responded to who was saying nuTrek is aimed at meant, simply wont come to buy Star Trek books regardless of what you do to promote them or where you do it. I just think it's better to focus on the people who actually might do so (which this con might do, I neither know nor particularly care about cons as I never go, it's incidental to the point I was originally making).

I had a similar discussion about comics and the fallacy of the digital dream on the scifi/fantasy board the other week. Some things just arent meant for a large, general auidence.
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Old June 26 2010, 05:58 PM   #102
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

MNM wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
So how does it make any sense not to try?
I never said don't try. I just said don't go wasting your time trying to get the mainstream to become interested, as it wont work and stops you focusing on your core audience.
How do you define the "core audience"? Is it only the people already inside the bubble of Treklit? Is it Star Trek fans who read (but may not necessarily read Star Trek books)? Or is it Star Trek fandom as a whole? The first is a small, finite, and dwindling number. (Dwindling because it's always easy for people to stop buying the books; maybe they lose interest, maybe they can't afford them any longer.) The second is larger than the first, perhaps by an order or two of magnitude. The third is much larger than the second by serious degrees. You can draw the Venn diagram here; it looks like the Target logo. Possibly made out of pine cones and in negative colors.

The chance of getting someone outside the third to read a Star Trek novel is, I admit, almost infinitesimal. (Though I'm curious to see how well the Nightshade reprint sells this summer, because if any book is going to reach outside the Star Trek bubble, it will be that one.)

So do you target the first group -- the people already reading Star Trek novels -- or the second group -- Star Trek fans who read? If you target the first, sales will decline over time through natural attrition. If you target the second, you can capture new readers to replace the extant readers leaving the market.

Which group does Pocket target? I would argue that Pocket has decided over the past decade to entrench themselves in the first with books targeted specifically at a narrow pocket (pun unintended) of fandom, those already reading the books, using niche concepts that lack a broader appeal. Pocket's business decisions over the past decade in regard to Star Trek fiction, from abandoning the market prestige of the hardcover format to halving the publishing line to a greater emphasis on trade paperbacks (which have a different economic model than mass-markets and can tolerate lower sales because they have greater margin and profit), all indicate a line in financial decline. It's not inconceivable that Pocket could choose not to renew the Star Trek license when it's up for renewal in the next few years because it no longer makes financial sense to them, even though the financial decline arguably rests on the creative choices made by those overseeing the line.

I had a similar discussion about comics and the fallacy of the digital dream on the scifi/fantasy board the other week. Some things just aren't meant for a large, general audience.
Comics can appeal to a wider audience, but there are structural problems in the comic book market, from the collapse of newsstand distribution to price points that inhibit casual, spur-of-the-moment purchases.
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Old June 26 2010, 06:00 PM   #103
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Well, it's not like the mainstream audience and the niche audience live on different planets or something. If you broadcast a message to the general public, it's going to be heard by those members of the niche audience who are also in "earshot" of the message. For instance, a family watching TV may include three people who couldn't care less about a niche product and a fourth who'd be eager to buy it, all in the same room at the same time seeing the same ad for that product or news feature about it. Or a thousand people who drive by a billboard for that niche product may include 985 who have no interest, 10 who'd be curious enough to check it out if they knew about it, and 5 who'd be thrilled to discover its existence.

So the absolute distinction you're drawing here between addressing the general audience and addressing the niche audience isn't very realistic. They do overlap.
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Old June 26 2010, 10:06 PM   #104
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Whoever Pocket are targeting with the NuTrek books,they had better target them a bit faster.The movie has been out for a long time now(by MTV Gen standards anyway).And the second movie hasn't even begun to get off the ground yet so...
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Old June 26 2010, 11:31 PM   #105
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Re: Massive New Trek Lit Update in Star Trek Magazine

Apparently, a big part of the process is out of Pocket's hands.

Otherwise, there'd be four books on the stands right now.
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