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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 26 2010, 03:58 AM   #46
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Can Pine's Kirk work as an authority figure?

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post

Everything that I've said about Kirk presupposes that the writers know how to craft a good story. But "Kirk stands on principle," is a scene or storyline we do need to see, because it's an essential part of getting Kirk from point A to point B and beyond.
Are you saying that the next movie will have different writers?
The story might have been a tad weak this time around (especially in their woefully generic villain - the Romulans are even in more desperate need of development than Kirk is!) but I have faith that they'll do better in that department next time around.
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Old June 27 2010, 07:56 PM   #47
Captain_Rogers
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Re: Can Pine's Kirk work as an authority figure?

Apparently some of you say a parallel universe version of this movie different than most of us.

Kirk didn't show this or that.....huh?

No maturity, no sense of authority, no loyalty to his crew...really?!?!?!?!

First off, lest we fortget....OLD Spock told Kirk how to "steal" command of the Enterprise. He told Kirk it was necessary.

After assuming command, he changes plans and sets a course to intercept the Romulans saying that either the Romulans are going down or they are. Willingness to lay down his life and that of the crew to save Earth and the Federation is a pretty LARGE show of dedication.

Later when Spock says he can beam over to the Narada, Kirk says he's not going to let Spock do that, he's going with him. Sure sounded like "our" Kirk to me. Kirk goes into a hard combat situation, proving he won't ask someone to do he wouldn't do himself.

Then when Spock gets all weird and is doing his please tell Uhura bit, Kirk repeats to him their plan is going to work. No question, no doubt. a Leader saying we are going to face crappy odds and win. Period. Sure sounds like a good leader to me.

I think part of the problem is some of you lack any real world experience with human behavior it seems. Many of you lack the understanding to see how being a little arrogant, a little cocky can still mesh with being a good leader and a person who can show caring and loyalty and earn respect.

Based on tidbits we learned about James T Kirk in the original series and beyond, this rather lamely titled NuKirk, this NEW James T Kirk, managed to provide exactly the kind of youngster I expected to see "our" James T Kirk to develop from.

As for Scotty, well, in the original series he provided comic relief as often as he was serious. In this, we saw only one brief aspect of him. And he's young still. I don't hold much credibility for the complaints offered so far.
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Old June 27 2010, 09:01 PM   #48
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Can Pine's Kirk work as an authority figure?

No maturity, no sense of authority, no loyalty to his crew...really?!?!?!?!
We saw glimmers of those elements, but there wasn't enough screen time for more than a glimmer. Those are the elements that subsequent movies need to develop.

Which is good, of course. The characters all need to have some sort of arc, and Kirk and Spock need the most substantial arcs. It can't just be funny colored aliens and splosions.

Willingness to lay down his life and that of the crew to save Earth and the Federation is a pretty LARGE show of dedication.
Anybody would try to save their home planet. There was no discussion at all of Federation ideals (maybe because of lack of time combined with an assumption that the audience is at least passingly familiar with them). It would be nice for subsequent movies to address this in dialogue at least briefly. Starfleet is more than just space cops.

Many of you lack the understanding to see how being a little arrogant, a little cocky can still mesh with being a good leader and a person who can show caring and loyalty and earn respect.
I think the problem is that in real life, the arrogant, cocky types are almost always selfish idiots who make abysmal leaders. They think they can be good leaders, but it's a pathetic self-delusion. The real leaders I've met - and I've met a few - are good communicators and collaborators, and are careful not to make a bad impression by coming off as arrogant or displaying any other traits that disrupt the cohesion of the group. They know how they are perceived by others, and that this perception is supremely important. Even if they are arrogant in reality, they have the self-awareness and self-discipline to suppress it.

Which is not to say that this particular character can't be cocky and also a good leader. But it's a combo that isn't all that common in the real world that I've ever noticed, so the screenwriters need to sell it to us.

Then when Spock gets all weird and is doing his please tell Uhura bit, Kirk repeats to him their plan is going to work. No question, no doubt. a Leader saying we are going to face crappy odds and win. Period. Sure sounds like a good leader to me.
That just came off as glib. Anyone can say, rah-rah-rah, we're gonna win! A good leader will be honest about the situation. If they're going into what's likely to be a suicide mission, say so. Self-delusion, or attempts to delude your team, is not a leadership trait. Anyone who's in Starfleet has already made the choice to sacrifice their life under certain circumstances, so there's no need to be dishonest about the situation.
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