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Old August 8 2014, 08:58 AM   #1
J. Allen
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Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

I've been a vegetarian for almost two years. Now, however, I'm transitioning back to being an omnivore again. I'm not talking going from vegetarian to daily bacon burger eating; my consumption of meat will be minimal, but it will exist, and it has already begun.

For me, it's about replacing nutrients I couldn't afford to replace as a vegetarian. Being vegetarian or vegan can get quite expensive, because meat is subsidized to such a degree that it's simply cheaper to eat it, and the more financially strapped we have become, combined with the limited availability of fresh fruits and vegetables in our area, has, in part, lead to this decision.

So I was reading an article in the New York Times today, that was full of comments about which diet was superior, and who was more foolish, and it just continues to baffle me. I've never condemned anyone for being raw foods, vegan, vegetarian, omnivorous, or carnivorous (though I am curious as to how long one could sustain themselves on a meat only diet). I've always figured one should eat what fuels one's body, and makes it perform optimally. What works for some may not work for others, and getting angry at what people eat, whether meat or veggies, is just so silly. There are places all around the world where people have nothing to eat! Now *there* is a problem that needs addressed, not some silly back and forth about what diet is superior.

As always, decisions like this, which seem small, seem to cause so many ripples. One person, a longtime vegetarian whom I've known for a number of years, told me that I was betraying the animals in favor of their slaughter. That was news to me.

A meat eating friend insisted that I had cleared myself of the brainwashing that lead to my vegetarianism in the first place. It's just sad, and a bit hilarious I guess, to see people make these grand, sweeping statements over what one chooses to eat.

That said, I do agree with Temple Grandin's approach to animal ethics; that we don't have to be cruel about how we get our food. Let's be conscientious, and kind. Let's treat these animals as humanely as possible, because we do have the capacity for compassion, even as we use these animals for sources of food. Be appreciative. Be thankful.

All of that aside, I ate some ramen with chicken broth in it yesterday. Today I had a veggie sub with tiny pieces of chicken on it. Tomorrow I will likely eat all veggie. The plan is to eat small amounts of meat for the next week or two, until I have brought my stomach up to speed without shocking it all at once.

Now, I did say before that part of the reason was finances. Another part of the reason is my doctor suspects I was becoming a touch anemic. Even though I tried to eat as many vegetables as I could, there were some I simply couldn't afford, or weren't available, to fill in some of the gaps. I remember, in the vegetarian thread, seeing all of these delicious vegetable recipes, and having no way to procure many of them to try the same thing.

So after some heavy thinking, I made the decision, and so here I am.

I won't lie, though: in a few weeks, once I feel my stomach is strong enough, I will eat a Wendy's classic single, with their fries, and a Coke. I feel this is essential in my growth as a person.

So, um, anyone else want to talk about stuff?
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Old August 8 2014, 09:28 AM   #2
teacake
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Since you originally, as I recall anyway, started eating veg to lose weight and for health I would suggest you think hard about what meat you do eat and what crap you return to eating because you can now eat it since you are eating meat. I'm only saying this because it is potentially a rapid downhill slide into huge amounts of extra calories, fat, sugars when you have permission to eat as an omnivore. They sneak up on you (ramen is totally useless food, full of fat and calories and virtually no benefits for instance). The meat you describe eating will do nothing for anemia. A hamburger meal is also totally outweighed by fats and sugars vs the small amount of iron you will get from the hamburger.

Look for lean beef, grill it, enjoy it as a regular part of a healthy diet that takes into account calories, G.I. and iron needs. Avoid processed meats and meals where the meat is surrounded by sauces and other fillers that limit how much protein you get and fill you up on salts and fats. Really, just be aware that eating better and healthier which you had huge benefits from can include meat, but it has to be thought about with as much care as becoming a vegie does.

I think it's terrible you don't have easy access to a lot of fresh fruit and veg, it boggles my mind how many times I've read this over the years. America, wtf. I've read before that it is much cheaper to eat crap, I hope you don't find it too hard to avoid going that route. Brown rice and lentils are (I assume) cheap and if you make good grains and legumes your base filler in a meal and then put meat on top of/in them you can avoid the pitfalls of the (also totally useless) easy noodles and sauces people stretch meat out with.

In other words, I hope you can add meat to the health achievements of your diet and not add all the crap that meat is paired with

Also your doctor should not be "suspecting" you're becoming anemic, he should be testing to find out if you are.

Yes I realize this reads like you posted you are throwing yourself over the nutritional cliff to your death and that is not what you said but I have seen this so many times. People go on big diets, lifestyle changes to clean all the crap they've been living on out and they feel fantastic and they loose weight and then it gets too pricey are complicated or they are just sick of it and.. a year later they have gone backwards big time in health.

Lecture over. Enjoy your meat
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Old August 8 2014, 09:54 AM   #3
J. Allen
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Danke.

My doctor suspects because I can't yet afford the tests needed to know for sure. He's going off of my own statements.

I don't foresee any problems with staying on the health side of things, and I will be playing it very safe. The ramen noodles I had because I've been suffering from sinus drainage, and have a sore throat and stuffy nose, and I didn't have any veggie broth or chicken noodle soup.

As for fresh veggies, yeah, you'd think living in a farm town would leave my options wide open, but nope! Hell, this town is full of diabetics, but our local Kroger has cut back on their diabetic selections because people haven't been buying them, and of course Kroger can only sell what people are willing to buy.

We have 12 different kinds of spreadable cheese, though. *sigh*
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Old August 8 2014, 10:07 AM   #4
teacake
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

If you have trouble finding things that sound good, like lentils or dried beans or different grains you may be able to mail order them. It can be an initial investment but works out much cheaper than buying cans or small packets, assuming they are even available.

I have 20kg of pinto beans and 20kg of black turtle beans in my garage, so I know of what I speak LOL. I eat them all the time, add them to just about everything.

Now that you are a carnivore (heh) start stalking the meat aisle and look for sales, you can always freeze it. When I had anemia at one point I bought whatever steak was the absolute cheapest, grilled them and cut them into pieces a couple inches long and froze them. Then I ate one every day, even if I didn't feel like it. As a nutritional supplement. Got rid of the anemia and I think dealing with it directly like that rather than just haphazardly eating more meat when I thought about it worked very well.
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Old August 8 2014, 04:17 PM   #5
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Coincidentally, I'm considering returning to vegetarianism -- well, pescitarianism. It's my default position anyway, and it's strange, but you and I have come to opposite conclusions: one of the main reasons I'm vegetarian by default is because I find meat to be too expensive!
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Old August 8 2014, 04:27 PM   #6
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Depends on cuts really or if you can catch your own (cheapest way).
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Old August 8 2014, 04:36 PM   #7
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

J. Allen wrote: View Post
All of that aside, I ate some ramen with chicken broth in it yesterday.
I can't eat that stuff at all. In less than 30 minutes, it's like a fast acting laxative.
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Old August 8 2014, 05:55 PM   #8
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Depends on cuts really or if you can catch your own (cheapest way).
I have expensive taste.
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Old August 8 2014, 06:25 PM   #9
Tora Ziyal
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

J. Allen, I read that article, too. The comments were ridiculous! I'm not sure why people get so upset about what other people eat.

Since one of your reasons for eating meat again is concern about anemia, you might want to skip the chicken and concentrate on beef, which has twice as much iron. Also, eating it with food that is rich in Vitamin C helps you absorb the iron better. If you're really anemic, I kind of like Teacake's idea of eating a set small amount every day like a supplement.

When I was severely anemic after surgery, I spent months eating more meat and taking an iron supplement. My body did not like either, but they did the trick, and I'm no longer anemic. Now I'm back to my usual -- rarely eating meat, maybe once a month or so.
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Old August 8 2014, 09:27 PM   #10
Pondwater
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Coincidentally, I'm considering returning to vegetarianism -- well, pescitarianism. It's my default position anyway, and it's strange, but you and I have come to opposite conclusions: one of the main reasons I'm vegetarian by default is because I find meat to be too expensive!
Same here!! I won't cook meat in my kitchen. Unless it is fish. I'm trying to keep kosher on top of that.
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Old August 8 2014, 09:42 PM   #11
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Some of that spread by tick bite, it seems
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...-meat-24884428
A good way to force yourself to be accepted by one's mate?
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=25789
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Old August 8 2014, 11:40 PM   #12
J. Allen
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

teacake wrote: View Post
If you have trouble finding things that sound good, like lentils or dried beans or different grains you may be able to mail order them. It can be an initial investment but works out much cheaper than buying cans or small packets, assuming they are even available.

I have 20kg of pinto beans and 20kg of black turtle beans in my garage, so I know of what I speak LOL. I eat them all the time, add them to just about everything.

Now that you are a carnivore (heh) start stalking the meat aisle and look for sales, you can always freeze it. When I had anemia at one point I bought whatever steak was the absolute cheapest, grilled them and cut them into pieces a couple inches long and froze them. Then I ate one every day, even if I didn't feel like it. As a nutritional supplement. Got rid of the anemia and I think dealing with it directly like that rather than just haphazardly eating more meat when I thought about it worked very well.
That's a good idea! Thanks!

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Coincidentally, I'm considering returning to vegetarianism -- well, pescitarianism. It's my default position anyway, and it's strange, but you and I have come to opposite conclusions: one of the main reasons I'm vegetarian by default is because I find meat to be too expensive!
I guess it depends upon where you live. Where I live, meat is cheap. I can buy 4 boneless chicken breasts for $3.26, but a head of lettuce is $1.49.

Melakon wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
All of that aside, I ate some ramen with chicken broth in it yesterday.
I can't eat that stuff at all. In less than 30 minutes, it's like a fast acting laxative.
That's a shame. Ramen noodles, with peas, carrots, and a little shredded cheese, is pure heaven.

Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
J. Allen, I read that article, too. The comments were ridiculous! I'm not sure why people get so upset about what other people eat.
I don't get it, either. I understand the ethical side of the argument in terms of needless cruelty, but humans are omnivores. It's not like we said "well, we can only eat plants, but I'm going to bite this lion anyway."

I agree with Temple Grandin (I love her) regarding our ability to sustain ourselves without cruelty, but meat being murder? Sorry, folks, it's not.

Since one of your reasons for eating meat again is concern about anemia, you might want to skip the chicken and concentrate on beef, which has twice as much iron. Also, eating it with food that is rich in Vitamin C helps you absorb the iron better. If you're really anemic, I kind of like Teacake's idea of eating a set small amount every day like a supplement.

When I was severely anemic after surgery, I spent months eating more meat and taking an iron supplement. My body did not like either, but they did the trick, and I'm no longer anemic. Now I'm back to my usual -- rarely eating meat, maybe once a month or so.
Also a good idea!
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Old August 9 2014, 01:54 AM   #13
Pondwater
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

You put cheese on ramen?
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Old August 9 2014, 01:56 AM   #14
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Cheese on ramen is great. You can buy it in restaurants here.

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Old August 9 2014, 01:57 AM   #15
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Re: Applecore! Omnivore! Who's your friend? Me!

Think macaroni and cheese and it will all be clear!

Also is amazing when you are eating spicy ramen like the vid above. ADD SEAFOOD. Even better.

I'm hoping this thread becomes the omnivore picture thread
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