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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Who was the best Saavik?
Kirstie Alley 66 80.49%
Robin Curtis 16 19.51%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 14 2010, 11:24 AM   #76
Therin of Andor
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Re: The best Saavik?

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
I suppose he has a thing for someone who can play a Vulcan worth a damn. Which Curtis could and Alley could not.
Kirstie Alley was playing a hybrid Vulcan/Romulan. The script (and the director) told her to play certain scenes with degrees of Romulan emotion. As I child she was a ST fan. She used to practise eyebrow raises in the mirror, pretending to be Spock's kid sister. She knew how Vulcans acted and she knew how emotional Romulans could be.
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Old June 14 2010, 07:47 PM   #77
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Re: The best Saavik?

^ Very true. Alley played the part exactly as she was told. However, when all the references to her Romulan heritage were dropped, we the viewers were left to assume that the character was, in fact, a full Vulcan.

Therefore, I feel it is a valid criticism of the character to say that Alley's emotional performance is a detriment. If they were going to cut her Romulan heritage out, they should have toned down her emotional reactions in the editing room as well.
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Old June 14 2010, 07:51 PM   #78
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Re: The best Saavik?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
^ Very true. Alley played the part exactly as she was told. However, when all the references to her Romulan heritage were dropped, we the viewers were left to assume that the character was, in fact, a full Vulcan.

Therefore, I feel it is a valid criticism of the character to say that Alley's emotional performance is a detriment. If they were going to cut her Romulan heritage out, they should have toned down her emotional reactions in the editing room as well.
EXACTLY. This is how I've felt about Kirstie's performance for ages. Once the Romulan connection was 86ed from the final edit of the film her performance should have been toned down just a little more than it wound up being.
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Old June 14 2010, 07:54 PM   #79
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Re: The best Saavik?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.
This is not a discussion of careers here. Saavik, that's all.
And I like Curtis' performance better is all.
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Old June 17 2010, 05:29 PM   #80
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Re: The best Saavik?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
I suspect the people who prefer Curtis first saw Alley in Cheers rather than in TWOK, so they're prejudiced by their preconceptions.

Curtis really was awful.
As somebody who didn't even see his first Cheers episode until 1991, I have to say that both of your assertions are wrong.

At least, as pertaining to me.

Robin Curtis was the best Saavik. No question.
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Old June 18 2010, 01:33 AM   #81
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Re: The best Saavik?

I prefer Alley's performance, but I think Curtis's performance (certainly a thankless task) is underappreciated. She did the best with what she had to work with. It would be like asking someone to replace Nimoy as Spock. Oh wait...
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Old June 18 2010, 02:15 AM   #82
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Re: The best Saavik?

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Alley demonstrated superior acting range over the course of her professional career. Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.
This is not a discussion of careers here. Saavik, that's all.
And I like Curtis' performance better is all.
Wait one minute, acting ability has no baring on who was the better Saavik?


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Old June 18 2010, 06:46 AM   #83
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Re: The best Saavik?

I'm undecided on which Saavik I like better. I wish Saavik had turned up on TNG or DS9.
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Old June 18 2010, 09:07 AM   #84
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Re: The best Saavik?

In terms of acting ability, I would say that Curtis' performance was more polished and more subtle. Having read the TWoK novel, it just isn't the Saavik I wanted to see.

Career-wise I'm not sure that you can judge the women based on which one of them was lucky enough to land a lead role in a sit-com. Alley's comic timing is pretty good mind you, and I'm not sure that Curtis could have portrayed 'kooky' as successfully, so that's not to say Alley didn't deserve to be a success! I'm sure Curtis was busy working, even if she wasn't doing as much television or movie work.

I agree that I cringed every time a desicion to feature Saavik post STIV was nixed. She was a great untapped resource.
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Old June 18 2010, 10:42 AM   #85
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Re: The best Saavik?

Gary 7 of 9 wrote: View Post
I'm undecided on which Saavik I like better. I wish Saavik had turned up on TNG or DS9.
I was suprised to see Robin Curtis as a Romulan in TNG "Gambit". I kept thinking it would have been much cooler to catch up with an older Saavik.
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Old June 18 2010, 10:58 PM   #86
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Re: The best Saavik?

As an avid new ST fan (due to TMP), I vividly remember the announcement that ST II would feature a young, female Vulcan protege for Spock (and also introduce a young, male, wannabe Kirk) and how Saavik and David would become the new blood of whatever post-ST II life the ST franchise might have. At the time, we knew that it was Paramount's TV arm producing ST II, so we were assuming a new series, or revival of "Phase II", or at least a series of telemovies, and that such an arrangement would give Shatner and Nimoy their "chance to move on" when they were ready. However, the general fan assumption was that Saavik would be a rather flighty "Mary Sue" type, rather like any young female character added to ST fan fic of the day!

In Australia, we had a science fiction media convention in February 1982 and, at that time, "Starlog" had not had anything like the plethora of studio stills they'd had for TMP the same distance out from the US premiere (ST II was destined to open in the US on June 4, 1982, but much later in Sydney). One of the attendees at this con had lots of Japanese connections and she brought with her, hot off the press, a volume of Japanses Super-Visual magazine, which featured several small photos of ST II - our very first glimpses of the new uniforms... and Saavik. Imagine several hundred fans all trying to look at one magazine while the owner held it open.

Our next surprise was an air freighted copy of the Starlog movie magazine special in the June, giving us just enough time to replicate the uniforms for our own premiere night, and of course, Kirstie Alley's voice is the first we hear in ST II. It wasn't anything like we'd imagined and suddenly all concerned that Saavik would be "annoying" dissipated.

The fan buzz around the death of Spock, Nimoy's resistance to do more ST, how Saavik would carry on "Spock's legacy", her appearance as Saavik in Walter Koenig's ST play at the Ultimate Fantasy convention, the rich character backgrounds described and developed further by Vonda McIntyre in the ST II novelization, garnered a lot of support for Kirstie Alley's talents. The thought that a new ST franchise, focusing on romantic leads, Saavik and David - to perpetuate the Kirk & Spock mythos in ways only the slash zines had so far been able to do - were intriguing.

So the recasting (and reimagining) of the Saavik character for ST III took many people by surprise. Suddenly "we can live without Spock because we have this wonderful new character" turned into "Yay! Spock's back! Robin who?" We often wondered if Nimoy had noted the pro-Saavik fan sentiments when he was feeling the yearn to return. And, as director, he was able to have major influence in what unfolded next.
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Old June 18 2010, 11:08 PM   #87
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Re: The best Saavik?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Gary 7 of 9 wrote: View Post
I'm undecided on which Saavik I like better. I wish Saavik had turned up on TNG or DS9.
I was suprised to see Robin Curtis as a Romulan in TNG "Gambit". I kept thinking it would have been much cooler to catch up with an older Saavik.
I had the same thoughts. It's too bad the 24th century shows never did this, but I'm glad the novels did.
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Old June 18 2010, 11:16 PM   #88
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Re: The best Saavik?

I voted for Kirstie, as she originated the role. However, Robin looked more like a Vulcan/Romulan -- I never cared for how they made up Kirstie's eyebrows. Let's be thankful they hadn't come up with the V-shaped forehead bump for the Romulans, as they probably would've added it to Saavik's look. I actually wish that Saavik had been the traitor in TUC -- what a swan song that would've been for the character.
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Old June 19 2010, 12:00 AM   #89
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Re: The best Saavik?

Red Ranger wrote: View Post
I never cared for how they made up Kirstie's eyebrows.
They didn't do anything to them. She has an unusual arch and wasn't keen on having them shaved off for the role. The script didn't specify what Romulans looked like and, indeed, there's a (inaccurate) script note in her introductory scene that explains that her "fair" complexion is due to her Romulan heritage - and that's why she wasn't given the usual LN1 sallow Vulcan makeup used on Spock and most other Vulcans in TOS, TMP and ST II.
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Old June 19 2010, 12:09 AM   #90
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Re: The best Saavik?

Without question Kirstie Alley, I absolutely Hated Robin Curtis' Saavik.
One line, "Captain, David is dead." Ice cold bitch.
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