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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Who was the best Saavik?
Kirstie Alley 66 80.49%
Robin Curtis 16 19.51%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 13 2010, 05:21 AM   #61
Chrisisall
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Re: The best Saavik?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Who played the best Saavik and why?

I say: Kirstie Alley, by miles.
As PRESENTED in the finished films, she was, in effect, Vulcan. Therefore, logic alone dictates that Curtis' performance of the character was more precise, given our knowledge of the species.

Or are you an anti-cannon dude? Big chests influence your interpretation of an actors interpretation, eh?
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Old June 13 2010, 05:22 AM   #62
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Re: The best Saavik?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
is there some law on Vulcan that mandates that Vulcans aren't allowed to dress their hair in a variety of fashions?
"Beakman's Law."
Apparently.
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Old June 13 2010, 05:41 AM   #63
Chrisisall
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Re: The best Saavik?

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
Robin Curtis by several million miles. She pulls off being a Vulcan perfectly whereas Alley never got that right, and for my money, looks a hell of a lot nicer.
EPIC AGREE!!
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Old June 13 2010, 05:43 AM   #64
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Re: The best Saavik?

I really like Kirstie Alley, but I am a bit biased, because in most cases I'd prefer the original. Granted, the second actress made her more 'Vulcan' but even with my love with Vulcans, I can't buy that they are all stoic, emotionless beings. Kirstie Alley's version of it, IMO showed flaws, a character who questioned emotions and 'rash decisions' but made a couple herself.
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Old June 13 2010, 05:47 AM   #65
Chrisisall
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Re: The best Saavik?

StarshipDefiant wrote: View Post
Kirstie Alley's version of it, IMO showed flaws, a character who questioned emotions and 'rash decisions' but made a couple herself.
Okay, you just wanted her big-time, it's okay, I thought she was totally hot in "Runaway" myself!
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Old June 13 2010, 02:00 PM   #66
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The best Saavik?

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Who played the best Saavik and why?

I say: Kirstie Alley, by miles.
As PRESENTED in the finished films, she was, in effect, Vulcan. Therefore, logic alone dictates that Curtis' performance of the character was more precise, given our knowledge of the species.

Or are you an anti-cannon dude? Big chests influence your interpretation of an actors interpretation, eh?
Big chests, small chests, medium chests...it's all good to me.

Anti-canon? All the way: Saavik was half-Romulan, the first Klingon in Starfleet was Konom, Spock did have a brother called Sybok, Kirk and crew served on Excelsior between STIII and IV, Nero did spend 25 years on Rura Penthe, Uhura married Stonn and Captain Janeway is dead.

It's all good.

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Old June 13 2010, 02:27 PM   #67
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Re: The best Saavik?

Kirstie Alley, because she seems to act more like a vulcan than the other actors.
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Old June 13 2010, 02:40 PM   #68
A beaker full of death
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Re: The best Saavik?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post

It makes no sense to have ALL Vulcans, or any alien race, look the same.
It's rather part of the very definition of "race," really.
You're taking the space-alien stuff too literally. As a story-telling construct, the alien races encountered in Star Trek stood in for the races encountered on 17-19th century missions of exploration/colonization, representing for dramatic purposes specific challenges or threats.
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Old June 13 2010, 02:47 PM   #69
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Re: The best Saavik?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Then they got just plain stupid and decided there should be African-American Vulcans (I shit you not, I've seen Tuvok described that way.)
Why is it absurd to see dark-skinned Vulcans on such a hot desert planet? Many people on Earth who live in such areas have extra melanin to cope. ST III even had Vulcans played by Asian actors.

Without Dorothy Fontana's anthropological sensibility, Trek aliens became just absurd.
And yet people have called her Andorians "hokey" and her Tellarites "stupid".
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Old June 13 2010, 02:48 PM   #70
A beaker full of death
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Re: The best Saavik?

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
I suspect the people who prefer Curtis first saw Alley in Cheers rather than in TWOK, so they're prejudiced by their preconceptions.

Curtis really was awful.
ENNNH, wrong answer, Hans!
ST2 was my first exposure to her, and Curtis was the best Saavik. Wanna go to double jeopardy where the stakes can really increase?

McClaneisall
Then I guess you just have a thing for overly emotional performances.
And don't call me "Hans."
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Old June 13 2010, 02:57 PM   #71
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Re: The best Saavik?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Then they got just plain stupid and decided there should be African-American Vulcans (I shit you not, I've seen Tuvok described that way.)
Why is it absurd to see dark-skinned Vulcans on such a hot desert planet? Many people on Earth who live in such areas have extra melanin to cope. ST III even had Vulcans played by Asian actors.
The absurd part is making Vulcan's races just like those of Earth. Why not a dark green Vulcan?
The Tuvok character was a totally blown opportunity. The first "black" Vulcan we see, and in charge of weapons, at that. Did his forbears come from a different geographical region of Vulcan, and if so, had there been conflict? What was the history? What drew him to security, an area the Vulcans we knew up to that point would traditionally frown upon?
Instead of exploring these issues, TPTW paid a little lip service to myticism and then made him just an American with funny ears.

Without Dorothy Fontana's anthropological sensibility, Trek aliens became just absurd.
And yet people have called her Andorians "hokey" and her Tellarites "stupid".
You know what people say about opinions...
Fontana really did understand that "alien" wasn't about a few bumps on the head, or even different customs. It was about an entirely different outlook on life (and death and everything in between).
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Old June 13 2010, 10:33 PM   #72
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Re: The best Saavik?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Fontana really did understand that "alien" wasn't about a few bumps on the head, or even different customs. It was about an entirely different outlook on life (and death and everything in between).
Mmmm. As much as I admire DC Fontana, I'm flummoxed as to what part of her TOS and TAS work leads you to set her up as such an exemplar. She attempted to keep the Vulcans on the straight and narrow during TOS, writing memos and suggesting ways to keep hybrid Spock unique among both Vulcans and humans.

ST has done "alien" very well over the decades. The Children of Tama, Species 8472, ENT's Andorians, Benzites, Bolians, Betazoids, the Dominion races... Compared to all of those, what did we learn about TOS/TAS Andorians, TOS Tellarites, TAS Edoans, TAS Caitians, TOS Catullans, TOS Tiburonians, etc, that went beyond some non-human body features and a very brief statement of Andorian and Tellarite mindsets?

Please give examples of DC Fontana's aliens' "entirely different outlook on life".

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Why not a dark green Vulcan?
Time, money, and the actor's willingness to spend many extra hours every day getting thick dark green makeup on every exposed body part. And more time spent for Wardrobe trying to get all the green stains out of Tuvok costumes every night. And repeat for his understudy and any stuntmen. The blueness of Shran only had to happen a few times each season in ENT. A dark green lead character - for seven years - is a very expensive statement on "race".
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Old June 13 2010, 10:42 PM   #73
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Re: The best Saavik?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
I suspect the people who prefer Curtis first saw Alley in Cheers rather than in TWOK, so they're prejudiced by their preconceptions.

Curtis really was awful.
ENNNH, wrong answer, Hans!
ST2 was my first exposure to her, and Curtis was the best Saavik. Wanna go to double jeopardy where the stakes can really increase?

McClaneisall
Then I guess you just have a thing for overly emotional performances.
No, I suppose he has a thing for someone who can play a Vulcan worth a damn. Which Curtis could and Alley could not.

Now, if you actually want to raise some kind of point and discuss it, instead of making inane statements, feel free.
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Old June 14 2010, 05:01 AM   #74
A beaker full of death
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Re: The best Saavik?

^Since you can't be civil, I decline. If you want to read my more specific points about Curtis's failings, read way upthread. Or don't. Somehow I just don't really care.
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Old June 14 2010, 06:19 AM   #75
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Re: The best Saavik?

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Big chests . . .
If you think Kristie Alley has a "Big" chest you need to get out more. If Saavik had developed into a ongoing character Alley, not Curtis, would have been the ideal choice. Alley demonstrated superior acting range over the course of her professional career. Not just comedy but drama too, lots of work. Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.
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