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Old May 4 2015, 06:32 AM   #1
Miss Chicken
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Location: Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
Opinion concerning a photo

I am not very good with faces and I trying to work out who which of two brothers a photo is.

The first photo was lifted from an 1915 newspaper and is definitely Roy Harold F___ and because it is from a newspaper it might show his hair darker than it actually was.



The second photo is marked with the initials HR F___ and is Hubert Russell who was always known as Russell.

The third photo is labelled as R F____ and I cannot work out if it is Russell or Roy.



So what do you think. These are the only photos I have of the two men.
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Old May 4 2015, 07:26 AM   #2
Melakon
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

I honestly don't see well enough to analyze it, but eyebrows and ear patterns are often good clues.
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Old May 4 2015, 09:12 AM   #3
Retu
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

Based on his eyes and hair, I'd say the third photo is Roy.
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Old May 4 2015, 10:13 AM   #4
Taelon
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

I think he looks more like the person in the 1st photo, Roy. The outer rim of his left ear seems less smooth than Russell's seems to be.
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Old May 4 2015, 10:41 AM   #5
RJDiogenes
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

Hard to say, but based upon hairstyle, shape of mouth, and size of jaw, I'd be inclined to think it's the guy in the first picture.
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Old May 4 2015, 02:51 PM   #6
Dennis
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

Hair is obviously changeable...but I'd say Roy.

They're almost twins, though.
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Old May 4 2015, 03:28 PM   #7
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

The guy in the 2nd photo is managing a slight smile, the others are not.

Also, the part in the hair looks lower on photos 1 & 3.

I would lean towards #3 being Roy.
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Old May 4 2015, 08:09 PM   #8
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

The two brothers do almost look identical. It's almost as if one man were acting, playing the serious brother and the carefree brother.

The first and third photo are both serious looks while the middle one is not. That, and the information you provide, suggests to me the first and third picture are of the same man while the second is not. However, people can change their moods and faces more easily than their hair.
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Old May 4 2015, 08:11 PM   #9
RoJoHen
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

He is the long lost 3rd brother that nobody talks about.
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Old Yesterday, 12:10 AM   #10
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

The more I look, the more I think 1 & 2 are the same.

It's the eyes & eyebrows. In 1 & 2 the eyes are a little closer together than 3.
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Old Yesterday, 01:42 AM   #11
Miss Chicken
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Location: Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
Re: Opinion concerning a photi

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
He is the long lost 3rd brother that nobody talks about.
Sadly it was Roy who became the long-lost brother.

He left home as a teenager and moved in with a family named McDermott and started using their surname. his older half-sister Gertie had married one of the McDermott boys. There is little doubt that Roy left home because of his very abusive father.

Roy enlisted in the army as Roy McDermott and was one of ths soldiers who landed at Gallipoli on the first day. Our family is very proud to have an original Anzac in the family.

Roy asked for his half of his pay to go to his widowed mother.

In May, Roy was badly injured while advancing on the enemy. He was sent to a hospital in Greece and later to England. Records show that as a result of his injury Roy's left leg was 1 1/2 inches shorter than his right leg.

He arrived back in his home town in January 1916. The township wanted to put on a dinner in his honour but he and his family declined because his brother, Leslie, had drowned on New Years Day and the family was grieving.

The army determined that his earning capacity had diminished by 30 shilling a fortnight as a result of his injury and awarded him a pension of that amount. He once asked again for half of that money to be sent to his mother and his younger brothers (twins - Claude and Clyde).

We know that he worked light duties at a mine but fell 105 ft down a bank and was serious injured and was in hospital for a while. However the army determined that these injuries didn't lessen his capacity to work any further.

Roy later went to Queensland looking for work and later went to Victoria. In his llast contact with his mother he informed her in was in Bendigo.

In about June 1919, the army contacted his mother asking his whereabouts. His younger brothers would be turning 16 in August and Roy would no longer be able to claim them as dependants and the money beinbg sent to his mother would be halved. The army needed to know Roy's address and whether he was working or not. His mother said it had been almost a year since she heard from him and pleaded to be allowed to keep Claude's payment as he was an invalid (in 1916 he had had one lung removed because of hydatis cysts).

The army asked his mother why Roy had a different surname from her as she stated she had only been married once. Had Roy enlisted using an alias. His mother answered that McDermott was his 'boxing name'.

The army contacted various state Army HQ asking them to inform Hobart HQ if they had any contact from Roy. I imagine that Roy was no longer collecting his Army pay.

For more than 90 years no trace of Roy was found. His mother and siblings all went to their graves not knowing for show of his fate. My grandmother believed that he must have died in the Great Flu epidemic.

Then a few years ago I found a listing for a Roy McDermott dying in Ballarat in Feb 1919. Parents unknown, aged 25 (our Roy would have been 26). I checked all databases for all states for a birth of a Roy McDermott in the years this man would have been born. Didn't find a single one. I also checked shipping arrival in Australia.

My sister managed to locate the burial records and he was listed as a soldier. There is only one Roy McDermott listed in army records between 1915 and 1919 and that is our Roy.

We hope that we will be allowed to put up a headstone on his grave and that the army will place a plaque stating he was an original Anzac.

The Flu Epidemic hit Victoria in December 1918 and its main victims were young adult males so it looks like my grandmother was right about how her brother died.
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 AM   #12
Miss Chicken
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Location: Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
Re: Opinion concerning a photo

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
The more I look, the more I think 1 & 2 are the same.

It's the eyes & eyebrows. In 1 & 2 the eyes are a little closer together than 3.
We are sure that 1 and 2 are different men, as both photos are clearly named.
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Old Yesterday, 02:00 AM   #13
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
The more I look, the more I think 1 & 2 are the same.

It's the eyes & eyebrows. In 1 & 2 the eyes are a little closer together than 3.
We are sure that 1 and 2 are different men, as both photos are clearly named.
The names were written there at the time and not later?

I'm starting to think "clones".
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“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
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Old Yesterday, 02:13 AM   #14
Miss Chicken
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Location: Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
Re: Opinion concerning a photo

Roy's picture was from a newspaper and the page indentifies him as R.H. McDermott. The second photo came from a descendent of Russell.

My grandmother had her own photos of her mother, brothers and sisters. Unfortunately all of these were destroyed during the Tasmanian Bushfires of 1967 along with 90% of all the houses in my grandparents' town.

Which is the reason I now keep copies of my photos online.
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Old Yesterday, 02:15 AM   #15
Dennis
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Re: Opinion concerning a photo

I played around with these some, enlarging and reducing them to match as best I could. My impression is that even allowing for slightly different camera angles, Roy's ears - and those of the third photo - stick out more than Russell's.
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