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Stargate Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise forum.

 
 
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Old May 25 2010, 04:44 PM   #16
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

BenRoethig wrote: View Post

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But aren't all of the Daedaluses (Daedali?) clearly Air Force-owned (their crews are all Air Force, we know that much) *and* have the USS prefix?
U.S. law reserves the U.S.S. designation to a ship commissioned in the United States. The only way legally this could be is if the ship was commissioned by the Navy and was assigned a Navy crew.
Then SG must be bending the law in this case.
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Old May 25 2010, 07:51 PM   #17
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Or, God forbid, they received special permission/had the law changed/etc.
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Old May 25 2010, 11:23 PM   #18
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Also, the episode Runner established that all branches of the US military had a presence on Atlantis.
Obviously the Navy would send some SEALs, or maybe an officer or two, but I have this mental image of a lone Navy deckhand dragging a rowboat through the gate in Rising.
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Old May 26 2010, 03:02 AM   #19
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

BenRoethig wrote: View Post

MSGT Greer. The show does this for familiarity, but calling Master Sergeant Greer Sergeant is inappropriate, doubly so because he's a Marine. In the Army, Staff Sergeant and Sergeant First class may be shortened to Sergeant same with Staff Sergeant And Tech Sergeant in the Air Force. The Marines do shorten shorten to sergent and master/First sergeants and Sergeant Majors in all branches must be adressed by their full rank.
Whatever. To my knowledge, they've never referred to him as Master Sergeant on the show, so I see no reason to start until they do. Hell, Rush said Greer was in the Army to his face and Greer didn't even bother to correct him.

Its a technicality, but the 304s are owned by the Navy because they carry the U.S.S. prefix. Air Force owned vessels carry U.S.A.F.S. or U.S.A.F.V.
The Prometheus did have USAF written on its hull. For some reason, computer displays and uniforms patches for the other ships stick USS in the name.

And I'd like to take a moment to laugh at the irony that we are once again arguing that there should be more navy in Stargate. And yet, in the General Trek section of this very forum, people frequently complain that there is too much navy in Star Trek. Got to love it.
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Old May 26 2010, 03:46 AM   #20
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
BenRoethig wrote: View Post

MSGT Greer. The show does this for familiarity, but calling Master Sergeant Greer Sergeant is inappropriate, doubly so because he's a Marine. In the Army, Staff Sergeant and Sergeant First class may be shortened to Sergeant same with Staff Sergeant And Tech Sergeant in the Air Force. The Marines do shorten shorten to sergent and master/First sergeants and Sergeant Majors in all branches must be adressed by their full rank.
Whatever. To my knowledge, they've never referred to him as Master Sergeant on the show, so I see no reason to start until they do. Hell, Rush said Greer was in the Army to his face and Greer didn't even bother to correct him.

.
For the franchise which had a reputation at one time for playing it straight with the USAF it is a big miss. While I can see a USMC staff NCO letting a foreign civilian call him a soldier there is no way United States Marine Corps corporals or US Air Force lieutenants will call him "sergeant" as if he were an Army soldier instead of "Master Sergeant Greer." I guess "top" could be used seeing how is relationship with Colonel Young and Lieutenant Scott is portrayed on screen. But Colonel Telford would never call him "top"

Where the Marines make the break at Staff Sergeant rank, as in Staff Sergeant Greer, the Army makes that break at the First Sergeant positions and E8 Master Sergeants are called just "sergeant" in normal conversation while E8 First Sergeants are "First Sergeant" its like Lieutenant Colonels are just "colonel" in normal conversation.
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Old May 26 2010, 08:25 AM   #21
Caliburn24
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

It really depends on whether or not the military personal on Destiny are special forces.

I was not in special forces during my time in the Army, but I did work(and spar in the gym) with special forces several times while in Iraq, and I even visited their outpost north of us on a supply run once.

At a certain level in the American armed forces all the normal customs and courtesies just go out the window. While working with SF I saw NCOs calling officers by their first names, beards all over the place, uniforms and weapons worn in all sorts of strange exotic ways. There was zero uniformity and the normal bearing and discipline of my own regular Army unit were not visible in the SF guys.

So I give the folks on Destiny some leeway when it comes to the little details. They're even further away from authority and normalcy than the backwaters of Iraq's Diyala province.
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Old May 26 2010, 09:35 AM   #22
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

I really don't see why Navy personnel should be more qualified in operating a spacecraft just because this spacecraft tends to be big. It's still an entirely different type of craft. People tend to take the term spaceship far too literal, that's how the whole "space navy" trope in SF came to be.

Anyway, the reason why the Air Force operates starships on Stargate is because there is a real-world Air Force Space Command. And the Air Force was always running the Stargate program, starting with the original feature film.

Last edited by Ensign_Redshirt; May 26 2010 at 09:51 AM.
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Old May 26 2010, 03:21 PM   #23
Star Wolf
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
It really depends on whether or not the military personal on Destiny are special forces.

I was not in special forces during my time in the Army, but I did work(and spar in the gym) with special forces several times while in Iraq, and I even visited their outpost north of us on a supply run once.

At a certain level in the American armed forces all the normal customs and courtesies just go out the window. While working with SF I saw NCOs calling officers by their first names, beards all over the place, uniforms and weapons worn in all sorts of strange exotic ways. There was zero uniformity and the normal bearing and discipline of my own regular Army unit were not visible in the SF guys.

So I give the folks on Destiny some leeway when it comes to the little details. They're even further away from authority and normalcy than the backwaters of Iraq's Diyala province.
TV rule, all characters are Special Forces. You can't write Navy without adding SEAL its the law. Jethro Gibbs of NCIS was a Marine MP and a Scout/Sniper. On JAG the office manager was a Force Recon Marine while the commander was a SEAL. Any character who was in the Army was a Ranger. 2LT James of SGU described herself as USAF Special Forces. Except for I'm just a cook Airman Becker you have to ask what do regular forces do. As they use Special Forces as gate guards when a wormhole opens up.
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Old May 26 2010, 03:33 PM   #24
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
It really depends on whether or not the military personal on Destiny are special forces.

I was not in special forces during my time in the Army, but I did work(and spar in the gym) with special forces several times while in Iraq, and I even visited their outpost north of us on a supply run once.

At a certain level in the American armed forces all the normal customs and courtesies just go out the window. While working with SF I saw NCOs calling officers by their first names, beards all over the place, uniforms and weapons worn in all sorts of strange exotic ways. There was zero uniformity and the normal bearing and discipline of my own regular Army unit were not visible in the SF guys.

So I give the folks on Destiny some leeway when it comes to the little details. They're even further away from authority and normalcy than the backwaters of Iraq's Diyala province.
TV rule, all characters are Special Forces. You can't write Navy without adding SEAL its the law. Jethro Gibbs of NCIS was a Marine MP and a Scout/Sniper. On JAG the office manager was a Force Recon Marine while the commander was a SEAL. Any character who was in the Army was a Ranger. 2LT James of SGU described herself as USAF Special Forces. Except for I'm just a cook Airman Becker you have to ask what do regular forces do. As they use Special Forces as gate guards when a wormhole opens up.
Well, in the case of Stargate it makes sense that everybody is special forces. These are not regular people. They travel through frakking wormholes into distant parts of the galaxy to fight Goa'uld, Ori, and Wraith. And everything they do is top secret. If I were in charge of the Stargate program I would only recruit special forces for the project.
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Old May 26 2010, 03:36 PM   #25
Caliburn24
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

If we had a Stargate, I would expect special forces to be involved in the program almost exclusively. I have no problem with that idea.

I mean it would be awesome to see a regular Army armored regiment in specially designed Stargate-fitable vehicles(Stargate Infinity for the win!) stage a massive 4,000 soldier assault on a Lucian Alliance world, but we'll never see that.

As to TV shows always having their ex-military characters be ex-SEALs/Delta/Ranger whatever, yeah, its a well played TV trope. Magnum was an ex-SEAL(as were all his buddies), heck the deputy in the latest episode of Justified was an ex-Ranger sniper.

There is a glitz, glamour and sexiness that goes with anything related to Special Forces that TV and movies just love to co-opt.
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Old May 26 2010, 04:24 PM   #26
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

The funny thing that gets me is that the base used for SGC has military personnel from all branches of the military but you only see Air Force and Marines.

The Navy helped quarantine the russian sub that was taken over by replicators, though you never saw any personnel I dont think, just glimpses of the ships around the harbor.

I always thought the Green Berets would be good for working with the rebel Jaffa, since that has typically been a mission type of GB since Vietnam.
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Old May 26 2010, 05:07 PM   #27
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

I don't know any special force Marines but from other Marines all you hear is that the Corps itself is a special force. And the Corps itself is more formal then the Army and Air Force in its common usage of rank and title.
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Old May 26 2010, 06:28 PM   #28
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ations_Command
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Old May 26 2010, 06:37 PM   #29
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Wasn't there talk awhile back that the US Air Force would change its name to US Aerospace Force? That would seem to make sense, IMHO.
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Old May 26 2010, 06:50 PM   #30
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

That much I knew. My question goes towards military culture. My pastor was a recon marine in the early 60s before Vietnam and he doesn't speak of his service as being above and beyond or different then other Marines except for jump school stories. I'm the only ex US soldier at a Marine heavy church.
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