RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,352
Posts: 5,354,727
Members: 24,620
Currently online: 686
Newest member: Cultiste

TrekToday headlines

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 24 2010, 11:20 PM   #316
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Where did Spock go?

Nero's appearance altered history, and it cost billions of lives on Vulcan.

How can you honestly argue in favor of that level of destruction?
Captain Robert April is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2010, 11:29 PM   #317
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where did Spock go?

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Nero's appearance altered history, and it cost billions of lives on Vulcan.

How can you honestly argue in favor of that level of destruction?
Because restoring the timeline to TOS would be a death sentence for Romulus and Remus in 2387. Vulcans wouldn't want their world to live at the expense of two others, even those of their enemies.

Kirk, Pike and Spock Prime know what's gonna happen. There's a chance the Romulan homeworlds will can be evacuated by 2387.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2010, 11:33 PM   #318
Smiley
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
Re: Where did Spock go?

On the face of it, trying to change that destruction would seem like the moral thing to do, and it may have been tried by Spock or other parties after the events of Trek XI. However, the destruction of Vulcan in this universe may lead to a chain of history that bypasses other potential calamities. Just like Enterprise-C had to be sacrificed to prevent a Federation-Klingon war in "Yesterday's Enterprise," Vulcan's loss might have a similar effect on the future of the Abrams universe. Nobody wants billions to die, but it increases the potential drama in later stories because we do not know what will happen next.
Smiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2010, 11:55 PM   #319
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
Hmm. As opposed to the countless number wiped out by erasing the TOS timeline?

But it doesn't matter because the TOS timeline wasn't wiped out because the Abramsverse isn't the original.
If you include the future of the alternate timeline (which since we're playing time police we should) it's about the same amount of nonexistance/death on either side.

The alternate universe stems from the TOS one, starting in 2233. Your fanon isn't strong enough to change this.
And we're back to this again. It isn't my fanon. It's what on the damned screen. You can put blinders on and cover your ears and hum real loud and it doesn't change anything.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 12:03 AM   #320
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

Please, things look different in the movie because it's a movie made now and not forty years ago.

The morality of time travel "fixes" and the judgment of Spock and everyone else in Trek is always conveniently tailored to the plot of the episode, be it "City On The Edge Of Forever," "All Our Yesterdays " or "The Voyage Home." The writers in this case set things up so that it's not within Spock's power to do anything about cosmic events - that's all. There's no point in citing Spock's past "character" as an excuse to claim that Spock isn't actually Spock.

Spock Prime is Spock from TOS because Nimoy and everyone associated with the movie say that he is. They get the first, last and only word on what's an actual part of Trek "canon" and what's just folks blowing smoke on a BBS.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 12:13 AM   #321
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

^ Actually, the creative forces (and I use the term loosely) behind the movie have nothing to say about TOS. The movie doesn't change the series. If Spock in the movie says, "I was a serial rapist and joined Starfleet to avoid conviction on Vulcan," that does not become part of the character seen in City on The Edge of Forever.
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 12:38 AM   #322
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where did Spock go?

Dennis wrote:
The morality of time travel "fixes" and the judgment of Spock and everyone else in Trek is always conveniently tailored to the plot of the episode, be it "City On The Edge Of Forever," "All Our Yesterdays " or "The Voyage Home." The writers in this case set things up so that it's not within Spock's power to do anything about cosmic events - that's all. There's no point in citing Spock's past "character" as an excuse to claim that Spock isn't actually Spock.

Spock Prime is Spock from TOS because Nimoy and everyone associated with the movie say that he is. They get the first, last and only word on what's an actual part of Trek "canon" and what's just folks blowing smoke on a BBS.
I know. I just enjoy defending Spock Prime's actions to closed-minded TOS fans.

Playing time police raises some interesting moral questions, beyond the shallow "let's fix the timeline!", too.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 12:39 AM   #323
xortex
Commodore
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
Re: Where did Spock go?

Why would prime Spock want to restore anything other than the prime TOS universe?
xortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 12:59 AM   #324
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

Dennis wrote: View Post
Please, things look different in the movie because it's a movie made now and not forty years ago.
It isn't a simple matter of appearance and production standards. It's the little matter of this being produced from the perspective of contemporary Trek as opposed to the universe TOS created.

The Abramsverse is the TOS universe corrupted. It's another universe altogether. Which is fine for a reboot.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 01:26 AM   #325
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

xortex wrote: View Post
Why would prime Spock want to restore anything other than the prime TOS universe?
What an absurd notion that it's reasonably within his power to do.

This is strangely apropos, here:

TV in parallel dimensions
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 01:36 AM   #326
Lieut. Arex
Fleet Captain
 
Lieut. Arex's Avatar
 
Location: Nav console
Re: Where did Spock go?

3D Master wrote: View Post
Lieut. Arex wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nope, I'm pretty sure there's no such reference in "Bread And Circuses."
Correct. "Bread and Circuses" confirms the three world wars mentioned in "Space Seed" which is no surprise considering Coon wrote/co-wrote both. Kirk's mention of Earth avoiding a nuclear holocaust is supported by Spock's statement in "Omega Glory" that the Yangs and Kohms, in their post-apocalyptic world, "fought the war your Earth avoided". Populations can be bombed out of existence ("Space Seed" with conventional weapons and Col. Green's series of genocidal wars need not have been global or nuclear. Most likely similar to, but larger than the ethnic cleansing seen in the Balkans during the 1990's.
I know there is at least one episode in S3 that mentions there was a atomic/nuclear holocaust, but if it isn't Bread and Circuses, I don't know which one it exactly is. Do notice that a holocaust is not a war. It seems that even if we used nuclear weapons in the 21st century WWIII, it wasn't used in a full-fledged exchange.
Not to my knowledge. The point of all the "Earth didn't fight a nuclear war" was to say to 1960's audiences who were only a few years past the near-miss of the Cuban Missle Crisis and still frightened the missiles might fly at any moment, "Things are bad, but we're going to work it out". Also, please note: within Star Trek's internal continuity, there was no 21st century world war. World War III, aka the Eugenics Wars, was confined to the 1990's. The mid-21st century nuclear exchange is part of GR's soft reboot of the Trek universe with TNG. It was 1987, we hadn't blown ourselves up or developed anything like the DY-100, so he shifted the whole future time frame forward.
Lieut. Arex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 01:46 AM   #327
xortex
Commodore
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
Re: Where did Spock go?

Dennis wrote: View Post
xortex wrote: View Post
Why would prime Spock want to restore anything other than the prime TOS universe?
What an absurd notion that it's reasonably within his power to do.

This is strangely apropos, here:

TV in parallel dimensions

How about within the power of the writers?
xortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 01:50 AM   #328
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

Why would the writers want to do that?

Goddamn, if they'd been reading Trek boards for the last ten years they might even have gotten the impression, somehow, that Trek fans don't like the so-called "reset button."
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 01:54 AM   #329
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: Where did Spock go?

An axion of Surak is, " the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". That alone should guide Spock to try and save Vulcan.
This is another universe, in which t does not follow that Hobus will destroy Romulus and Remus? Does time agent Daniels and coworkers patrol any timelines but the prime one?
Finally, in the TOS era, did not every ship have its own "logo", which change before ST vI?
An image in my catalogue has a Kelvin uniform with the Enterprise chevon on it as well as on cadet uniforms.Another piece of evidence that the JJverse did not come from the Prime one.
Ronald Held is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2010, 01:54 AM   #330
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

Dennis wrote: View Post
Why would the writers want to do that?

Goddamn, if they'd been reading Trek boards for the last ten years they might even have gotten the impression, somehow, that Trek fans don't like the so-called "reset button."
The whole point of this film is to start afresh. And that's what they did. So what's the problem?
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
spock

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:01 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.