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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old May 3 2010, 11:53 PM   #1
ToddKent
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Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

When I was a kid I watched Doctors #3 through #7 on American PBS so I have a passing familiarity with the show (although that was quite awhile ago). I just started watching season/series 1 of the "new" version (Are people still calling it "new"?) on Netflix.

I don't know why I had low expectations but so far I've really been enjoying it. Anyway, I had a few questions (please no spoilers):

- I see that the DVDs are broken down into season like most TV shows but I also understand that there are several TV movies/specials as well that might not fit into the actual seasons. Is there a good online reference for the viewing order of the these specials (I assume they fall between seasons but I really don't know)?

- Are there any episodes or specials that are "skippable"? Maybe the ones that weren't so good? Or are they all reasonably enjoyable?

-I'm about halfway through Season 1 (just finished the one where they prevent Rose's father's death and then the WWII two parter. Both stories were fantastic). I understand that there have been two additional Doctors since the "current" one (from my perspective). If I recall correctly wasn't there a "12 regeneration limit"? Is this still considered canon or did they get rid of that? And if so it looks like they are heading toward that limit at a fairly quick pace.

-Without giving away any spoilers, does the "Time War/No More Time Lords" backstory get fleshed out or does it just kind of stay in the background? And is Doctor #8 from the American TV movie still considered canon? (Hopefully without the half-human BS.) And do we ever get details on the regeneration from #8 to #9?

Anyway, as I said, I'm enjoying season 1 so far. I'm glad I decided to give the series a chance.
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Old May 4 2010, 12:01 AM   #2
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

DVDs: The season one box set comtains season one; the season two box set includes the first Christmas special and the subsequent season two, and that pattern carries on for seasons three and four. The specials that went out between seasons four and five are in a, ahh, special Specials box set.

There are skipable episodes, but almost all include some reference to the season arc plot, and which references prove to be important is difficult to spot at the time... and some of the skipables are among the best (and worst).

The regeneration limit hasn't really been addressed yet, though there are references which might be setting up a way round it.

The Time War: we still don't know everything, but bit-by-bit you do find out more...
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Old May 4 2010, 12:02 AM   #3
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

ToddKent wrote: View Post
- I see that the DVDs are broken down into season like most TV shows but I also understand that there are several TV movies/specials as well that might not fit into the actual seasons. Is there a good online reference for the viewing order of the these specials (I assume they fall between seasons but I really don't know)?
Not exactly. Each season had a Christmas Special (which is, I believe, generally placed as episode zero in the season DVDs). There was also a season made up entirely of specials, between seasons 4 and 5. Netflix has these all individually listed, though. So after you hit the finale of season 4, you'll want to rent, in this order, "The Next Doctor," "Planet of the Dead," "The Waters of Mars," and "The End of Time." Then pick up with season 5.

-I'm about halfway through Season 1 (just finished the one where they prevent Rose's father's death and then the WWII two parter. Both stories were fantastic). I understand that there have been two additional Doctors since the "current" one (from my perspective). If I recall correctly wasn't there a "12 regeneration limit"? Is this still considered canon or did they get rid of that? And if so it looks like they are heading toward that limit at a fairly quick pace.
They haven't mentioned it. No idea what they'll do when they get there, but it's a certainty that they'll ignore or work around it one way or another.

-Without giving away any spoilers, does the "Time War/No More Time Lords" backstory get fleshed out or does it just kind of stay in the background? And is Doctor #8 from the American TV movie still considered canon? (Hopefully without the half-human BS.) And do we ever get details on the regeneration from #8 to #9?
Well, you learn more about the Time War as the show goes on. There are never any flashback episodes or anything showing the Doctor fighting in the war or anything like that, though. The Eighth Doctor is canon (they've never mentioned his human mother again, leaving you to ignore it easily if you're so inclined), but, again, no flashbacks, and no regeneration scene.
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Old May 4 2010, 12:08 AM   #4
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

ToddKent wrote: View Post
I see that the DVDs are broken down into season like most TV shows but I also understand that there are several TV movies/specials as well that might not fit into the actual seasons. Is there a good online reference for the viewing order of the these specials (I assume they fall between seasons but I really don't know)?
This is the order...

Season 1
The Christmas Invasion

Season 2
The Runaway Bride

Season 3
Voyage of the Damned

Season 4
The Next Doctor

Planet of The Dead
The Water of Mars
The End of Time (2 Parter)

Season 5 (new one)

ToddKent wrote: View Post
I understand that there have been two additional Doctors since the "current" one (from my perspective). If I recall correctly wasn't there a "12 regeneration limit"? Is this still considered canon or did they get rid of that? And if so it looks like they are heading toward that limit at a fairly quick pace.
Far as I know its still canon but I've heard rumors it might get addessed at somepoint in Moffat's reign of Who (the new show runner). Apart from Tom Baker, most Doctors last a few years of course McGann (8th) and Eccelstion (9th) have short reigns so David Tennant run was standard and Matt Smith the current one should be around for a few years.


ToddKent wrote: View Post
-Without giving away any spoilers, does the "Time War/No More Time Lords" backstory get fleshed out or does it just kind of stay in the background? And is Doctor #8 from the American TV movie still considered canon? (Hopefully without the half-human BS.) And do we ever get details on the regeneration from #8 to #9?
The TV Movie is still canon though the half human thing appears to have been forgotten/wrote out. No info about how the 8th died though there are Audio stories ongoing about that Doctor so they might come up with the answer in the future. There is a story about the Time Lords but thats all am going to say since you want no spoilers but even then The Time War is never really fleshed out.
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Old May 4 2010, 12:11 AM   #5
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

ToddKent wrote: View Post
- I see that the DVDs are broken down into season like most TV shows but I also understand that there are several TV movies/specials as well that might not fit into the actual seasons. Is there a good online reference for the viewing order of the these specials (I assume they fall between seasons but I really don't know)?
The only specials that aren't already included with the season sets are the Christmas 2008 special and the specials from last year. All of them can be found in the Complete Specials set, and they came right after season 4.

- Are there any episodes or specials that are "skippable"? Maybe the ones that weren't so good? Or are they all reasonably enjoyable?
I say watch them all and decide for yourself. Though there are a couple episodes that are almost universally panned.

-I'm about halfway through Season 1 (just finished the one where they prevent Rose's father's death and then the WWII two parter. Both stories were fantastic). I understand that there have been two additional Doctors since the "current" one (from my perspective). If I recall correctly wasn't there a "12 regeneration limit"? Is this still considered canon or did they get rid of that? And if so it looks like they are heading toward that limit at a fairly quick pace.
It's still canon as far as we know. But I'm sure they'll find a way around it when the time comes.

-Without giving away any spoilers, does the "Time War/No More Time Lords" backstory get fleshed out or does it just kind of stay in the background?
It gets fleshed out more, yes.

And is Doctor #8 from the American TV movie still considered canon?
Yep.

(Hopefully without the half-human BS.)
That hasn't been addressed, but I personally just ignore that line anyway.

And do we ever get details on the regeneration from #8 to #9?
No.

Anyway, as I said, I'm enjoying season 1 so far. I'm glad I decided to give the series a chance.
I hope you enjoy it.

ETA: Ah, too slow.
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Old May 4 2010, 12:49 AM   #6
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

I was the same way. Would watch it on PBS as a kid and was always a bit intrigued by the show, but didn't grow to really love it until the new series came along.

And I frequently refer to this page to keep track of all the eps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_serials
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Old May 4 2010, 04:03 AM   #7
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

Although others have covered the basics, here's a few more tidbits.

First off, by the way, welcome aboard. You're going to love the new series. As you watched 3 through 7 you know full well that there will be incredible episodes, some below-average episodes, and a lot of just-plain-good. Some reviewers and fans tend to amplify one over the other, but it's really business as usual for Doctor Who!

ToddKent wrote: View Post
I don't know why I had low expectations
Given the generally shoddy track record of TV remakes, that's not an unreasonable initial impression of any remake. There were low expectations of Battlestar Galactica, too. The big different with Doctor Who is it's not a reimagining, or a reboot, or a remake. It's a direct continuation and a reinvigoration. Big difference over, say, Bionic Woman.

- I see that the DVDs are broken down into season like most TV shows but I also understand that there are several TV movies/specials as well that might not fit into the actual seasons. Is there a good online reference for the viewing order of the these specials (I assume they fall between seasons but I really don't know)?
The general point has been answered but you need to also know that the new era also introduced the "mini-episode". These were short, 7-minute stories that were produced for charity or special events. And at least 2 of them are considered canon.

After the final episode of Season 1 and the first episode (The Christmas Invasion) of Season 2, you need to see "Children in Need Special" (so-titled because it was part of the Children in Need charity appeal of 2005). The good news is it's on the Season 2 DVD set.

Between the season finale of Season 3 and the Christmas special that followed (Voyage of the Damned), there is a mini-episode called "Time Crash". This episode, by Steven Moffat, is a must-see if you're a fan of the Fifth Doctor, for reasons that will become immediately apparent! It's in the Season 4 box set.

Lastly, there was another mini-episode called Music of the Spheres. This one is hidden away as part of "Doctor Who at the Proms", a concert special included in the DVD release for the 2008 Christmas special, The Next Doctor, and also included in the 2009 Specials box set. It may or may not be canon, and can be viewed anytime, really, during the Tennant era. But it aired after the Season 4 finale and before The Next Doctor special.

Also in the category of mini-episode, for Season 2 the BBC produced "TARDISodes", short 1-2 minute webisodes helping to set up each week's story. Most of them take the form of prologues. Unfortunately, they weren't included on the DVD so you need to check YouTube or elsewhere for those when you get up there. They are not obligatory viewing.

The spin-offs haven't been addressed. There are 3 spinoff series. Torchwood has had 3 seasons. Season 1 needs to be watched at some point after the end of Season 1 and before the final three episodes of Season 3. Season 2 of Torchwood takes place after the Season 3 finale of Doctor Who. Season 3 of Torchwood also known as the Children of Earth mini-series should be seen after Season 4 of Doctor Who and preferably before the specials. It's a very different show from Doctor Who, and the first season is treated by Who fandom in much the same way Trekkies treated Enterprise, so your mileage may vary.

As for The Sarah Jane Adventures, Season 1 needs to be seen after Season 2 of Doctor Who, while Season 2 of Sarah Jane can be watched pretty much any time after that. Season 3 isn't on DVD yet but technically should be viewed before the final Doctor Who special, but that won't work because the DVD isn't coming out till the fall. Sarah Jane is aimed at a slightly younger audience than DW proper, however I found the storytelling in the first two seasons to be a lot more mature than I expected and several stories have ranked higher than some Doctor Who episodes in my opinion.

The third spin-off is a non-BBC production called K-9 which isn't on DVD yet. It takes place after The Invasion of Time (yes, that far back), so it can be viewed whenever. Unlike the other shows there's been no crossovers as yet.

On top of all this there were also two animated episodes produced. The Infinite Quest takes place sometime during Season 3, while Dreamland fits into the interval between the final 2 specials. Both are on DVD in the UK, while only Infinite is on DVD in North America, with Dreamland coming in the fall.

Confused yet?

Are there any episodes or specials that are "skippable"? Maybe the ones that weren't so good? Or are they all reasonably enjoyable?
You'll get different answers from different people on that one. The fact is each season has had an overall arc of some sort, so missing one episode means you miss a bit of the arc. In seasons 2, 3 and 4 the show instituted what were called "Doctor lite" episodes in order to allow the show to keep to its production schedule. They are what they say on the tin - the Doctor appears in only a few scenes of each. The first of these, Love and Monsters, is fairly reviled by fans. But the second, Blink, is possibly the most acclaimed Doctor Who episode ever and is probably the reason why its writer, Steven Moffat, now runs the show. And the third, Turn Left, was a vital part of that season's story arc.

I will say the animated episodes I mentioned, and the Time Crash and Music of the Spheres mini-episodes are optional. You can also get away without watching Torchwood or Sarah Jane though a few references in the main series might go over your head. And K-9 is meant to be a standalone, so you can choose to watch it or not. As I mentioned those TARDISodes are clearly optional as the BBC didn't even bother putting them on DVD.

But with only 13 episodes per season (14 including the Christmas specials), there's really no need to skip any of them.

I'm about halfway through Season 1 (just finished the one where they prevent Rose's father's death and then the WWII two parter. Both stories were fantastic). I understand that there have been two additional Doctors since the "current" one (from my perspective). If I recall correctly wasn't there a "12 regeneration limit"? Is this still considered canon or did they get rid of that? And if so it looks like they are heading toward that limit at a fairly quick pace.
Even back in the 70s and 80s everyone assumed they'd find a workaround. After all, the Master managed it. They could also decide to retcon it away, though they've admirably avoided doing too much of that (you may have noticed they've fiddled around with the math regarding the Doctor's age).

Without giving away any spoilers, does the "Time War/No More Time Lords" backstory get fleshed out or does it just kind of stay in the background?
All of the above.

And is Doctor #8 from the American TV movie still considered canon? (Hopefully without the half-human BS.)
After some initial doubts, an on-screen reference in a later season made the connection official. (There have since been a total of three direct references made). A piece of technology introduced in an upcoming (for you) season was used by the Doctor Who comic book to suggest a reason for the half-human thing. Russell T Davies was going to address it directly at the end of Season 4, something about "I was half-human for about a day", but cut it from the script before filming because he felt it would confuse new viewers. (This comes from his book The Writer's Tale: The Final Chapter which I STRONGLY recommend reading when you get caught up.)

And do we ever get details on the regeneration from #8 to #9?
No, and it's doubtful we ever will. At least on TV. At one point the Doctor Who Magazine comic strip was given the authorization by RTD to depict the regeneration, but the plan fell through. Without spoilers, as the series goes on you'll be able to piece together a likely scenario. Indeed, if you're already past "The Doctor Dances" you've already been given major clues.

The idea of Paul McGann appearing on Doctor Who as the Eighth Doctor is a rumor that appears like clockwork about every six months, especially if a "special episode" is announced. Although McGann continues to play the Doctor for BBC Radio/Big Finish's audio dramas, it's increasingly unlikely they'll bother having him appear on the main show.

Anyway, as I said, I'm enjoying season 1 so far. I'm glad I decided to give the series a chance.
And you ain't seen nothin' yet. It's a fantastic season, but the show really finds its legs in its second year. (And when you get to the fourth season, the exclusive-to-audio adventures kick in. Oh, and did I mention the full-cast Torchwood radio plays, and the Season 5-tie-in computer games ... I've gone cross eyed!)

Alex

Last edited by 23skidoo; May 4 2010 at 04:15 AM.
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Old May 4 2010, 04:42 PM   #8
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

Thanks for the info everybody. Looks like the DW franchise is more extensive than I was aware of. At least I have plenty of stuff to watch now.
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Old May 14 2010, 04:55 PM   #9
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

All right, just finished season 1 and had a few follow up questions/comments...

- So the origin of "Bad Wolf" is that "Future Rose" (or "Present Rose"), while possessed with the "shiny Tardis thingy," saw the name of the broadcast company on the satellite she was on and used it as inspiration to send reminders throughout time/space to her past self to make sure that she would come back with the Tardis to save the Doctor and kill the Daleks. Is that right or no? Is there anything else more to it?

- My first impression of the end of #9's tenure was "wow that was short." At first I was worried he was going to be angry-leather-jacket-Doctor ("GRR, I'm the Doctor! Screw you!") but I really liked this version. Very Doctor Who-ish. I definitely would have liked to see more with him but I guess the plan was to "leave 'em wanting more." Always a good strategy. Anyway, I hope this next guy is good.
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Old May 14 2010, 05:06 PM   #10
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

ToddKent wrote: View Post
- So the origin of "Bad Wolf" is that "Future Rose" (or "Present Rose"), while possessed with the "shiny Tardis thingy," saw the name of the broadcast company on the satellite she was on and used it as inspiration to send reminders throughout time/space to her past self to make sure that she would come back with the Tardis to save the Doctor and kill the Daleks. Is that right or no? Is there anything else more to it?
Yeah. Well, I guess it works that having seen it everywhere, then when she sees it on the ground it makes her work out that breaking open the Tardis is the obvious course of action. Paradoxically the message being sent after having seen it. And what a satisfying conclusion that shiny Tardis thingy was. Honestly, I think I needed a Doctor after sitting through that.
ToddKent wrote: View Post
- My first impression of the end of #9's tenure was "wow that was short." At first I was worried he was going to be angry-leather-jacket-Doctor ("GRR, I'm the Doctor! Screw you!") but I really liked this version. Very Doctor Who-ish. I definitely would have liked to see more with him but I guess the plan was to "leave 'em wanting more." Always a good strategy. Anyway, I hope this next guy is good.
It was more a case that Eccleston couldn't bear the idea of doing another series. So the rumours go at least. The decision to leave was his, and we've never conclusively known why.

As for leaving them wanting more: if that was ever an idea in new Who, they certainly forget it with the ending of The End of Time. Not to ruin it, but it's like the end of Return of the King.
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Old May 14 2010, 05:26 PM   #11
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

23skidoo wrote: View Post
The spin-offs haven't been addressed. There are 3 spinoff series. Torchwood has had 3 seasons. Season 1 needs to be watched at some point after the end of Season 1 and before the final three episodes of Season 3.
Torchwood season 1 should be seen after DW season 2 ends.

As for The Sarah Jane Adventures, Season 1 needs to be seen after Season 2 of Doctor Who, while Season 2 of Sarah Jane can be watched pretty much any time after that.
SJA season 2 seems to work best after the end of DW season 4. However, that puts both SJA seasons 2 and 3 in the gap between "Journey's End" and "The End of Time", which is also when Torchwood: Children of Earth fits, so it's a bit of a crowded time. (Interspersing SJA and TWCoE also doesn't work very well.) The only other restriction is that SJA season 3 should be seen after "Planet of the Dead".

My recommended order is:
-Doctor Who season 1
-Doctor Who season 2
-Intersperse SJA season 1 throughout DW seasons 3+4. At least "Revenge of the Slitheen" must occur before "Smith and Jones" (no direct link, but the events of "Turn Left" require it). Don't finish SJA1 too soon though, stretch it out.
-Intersperse Torchwood season 1 with DW season 3. Finish TW season 1 prior to DW "Utopia".
-Finish Doctor Who season 3
-Watch most of Torchwood season 2. It doesn't have to come entirely before DW season 4, but at least get through "A Day in the Death" before DW "The Sontaran Stratagem". (It's probably best if SJA "The Eye of the Gorgon" is seen before "The Sontaran Stratagem" as well.)
-Intersperse the remainder of DW4 and TW2, finishing both TW2 and SJA1 prior to DW "The Stolen Earth".
-Finish Doctor Who season 4
-SJA season 2
-DW "The Next Doctor"
-Torchwood: Children of Earth
-DW "Planet of the Dead"
-SJA season 3
-DW "The Waters of Mars", "The End of Time"

It's arguable that you can put portions of SJA 3 after "The Waters of Mars" if you want.
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Old May 14 2010, 05:40 PM   #12
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

I can't believe someone hasn't just made a master list of all the DW (and spin off shows) episodes and arranged them in the preferable viewing order.
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Old May 14 2010, 06:20 PM   #13
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

ToddKent wrote: View Post
I can't believe someone hasn't just made a master list of all the DW (and spin off shows) episodes and arranged them in the preferable viewing order.
That's kind of the problem with shows about time travel.
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Old May 15 2010, 01:09 PM   #14
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

TARDIS Wiki does a pretty good job of not only that, but also where the various comics, novels and audios fit in...
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Old May 15 2010, 02:17 PM   #15
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Re: Just started watching the "new" Dr. Who - a few questions

Another question: at the end of the first season, when the episode aired that had the regeneration of #9 to #10, was the regeneration promoted beforehand or was it meant to be a surprise?
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