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Old March 27 2010, 04:35 PM   #1
Warped9
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Playing with the refit Enterprise...

I love the TOS Enterprise. Even so I think the TMP may be the most credible looking of all the Trek ships. And I think a lot of people feel the same.

That said how might you tweak the refit design, outside or in, to make it more to your liking?
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Old March 27 2010, 04:44 PM   #2
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Have the Warp Nacelles glow like TNG Miranda or Galaxy class designs, Add rear fireing Torpedo launchers, make the neck just a tad thicker and the warp pylons, Add a few windows to the top and bottom of the Saucer

thats about it
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Old March 27 2010, 04:57 PM   #3
Warped9
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

There are things I could play with, like perhaps the overall finish of the hull. I'm not that crazy about the aztec-ing. I might have gone for a finnish that made the ship look more believable as an actual refit of the original design.

I'm also not crazy about the spotlight arrangement on the lower saucer. The rectangular parts look awkward and out of place to me. That said I've never nee crazy about the Christmas Tree lighting highlighting the name and registry.

But the main thing I'd consider changing are the warp nacelles. In plan view I think they're two narrow and lack visual balance with the rest of the design. In profile they're fine, but in cross section I'd like them to be meatier, perhaps more cylindrical.

Inside I'd have liked the corridors to be a little wider and taller, something that somewhat echoed what we saw on TOS.
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Old March 27 2010, 06:19 PM   #4
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

The pearlescent outer hull finish on the TMP refit is still one of the best things about it, and the aztec part of it wasn't that visible or distracting. I think if you messed with that to paint it flat grey you'd be putting your foot through a Picasso.

As for wider, taller corridors, that's a humungous waste of space. The corridors are for getting to and from rooms, much larger than a couple of people side to side and you're wasting valuable interior space. Not many warships or subs come with miles of wide corridors, this shouldn't either.

As for the nacelles, if you beef them up you'll need to seriously beef up the pylons, and it's going to get rather chunky looking and unbalanced. I think going cylindrical just makes it look less refined, harking back to the older tech rather than looking like a more modern design.

The only changes I might make would be to lose the saucer undercut (never did see why that was there) and add a rearward firing photon in the secondary hull undercut area. It's all undercuts with me.
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Old March 27 2010, 06:25 PM   #5
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Interesting topic...

1) I would have the aztec panel patterns more subdued, as if the model had a final overspray of gray. (From some angles, it would almost look like the TOS flat gray paint, but as lighting played over the surface, you would clearly see the paneling). Of course, with the panel lines and tiny "decals", it still would have been interesting and detailed enough.

2) I would lose the torpedo launcher housing, (I always thought that looked odd and stuck on) perhaps use those tube greebles (modified) in those ventral saucer "window" things.

3) Like you mentioned, the nacelles. Personally I missed that very iconic spinning/glowing dome effect when the movie
came out. I think the model makers could have come up with a detailed, credible-looking way to update that.
Lets see...the art deco rear fin shape could be used in forming newer style intercoolers, while the rear might echo the TOS model (interestingly updated).

4) Finally, the pylons could be thicker, more substantial looking?
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Old March 27 2010, 09:34 PM   #6
Warped9
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Considering the support pylons of the TOS look frail in comparison to the refit I don't think you have to beef up the pylons.
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Old March 28 2010, 01:00 AM   #7
Gagarin
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

A slightly wider dorsal and a less prominant undercut - or a 2.5 deck wide outer rim.
I absolutely love the design.
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Old March 28 2010, 01:01 AM   #8
Gagarin
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Ooops, double post...

Well, here's the internal changes I guess:

I love the corridors, but perhaps sometimes have a middle ground that harkons back to the TOS corridors? Side access ladders?

Put the reactor/crystal "access" room (from ST II?) near the bottom of the intermix shaft.
Some smaller conduits coming off the intermix shaft to power converters, not just a big long shaft.

No flying buttress metal mesh in main engineering (too 70's).

Last edited by Gagarin; March 28 2010 at 06:30 AM.
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Old March 28 2010, 02:52 AM   #9
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Change the forward cap of the engines, I have always loved the swirling colors of the TOS Enterprise's engines and think the design lost something important when this was deleted.

Plus I'd made the length at least ten percent longer, not the size of the nuEnterprise (God no), but more than a thousand feet.
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Old March 28 2010, 04:19 AM   #10
Wingsley
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

I would bring back some minor touches from TOS to the TMP refit model, for greater continuity:

BRING BACK THE STARFLEET PENNANT - I much preferred the boomerang shape used on the side of the secondary hull and nacelles on the TOS Enterprise.

USE TOS-STYLE BLOCK-LETTERING ON THE HULL - Charles Casimiro's web-site can show you samples of the "Airborne" font used for hull-lettering on the TOS Enterprise. I much prefer it to the "more modern" look of TMP and the latest movie. The newer font looks a little too much like "aren't you impressed with my snazzy new computer-age font?" for my taste. The "Airborne" font looks more naval to me. And I would use the exact same nomenclature arrangement on the top of the TMP saucer-fore as was used in TOS.

SAUCER PREFERENCES - I prefer the TOS-style glowing domes on the very top and bottom of the saucer. And the lower vortex of the saucer could be smoother, with a less-busy arrangement. These are purely aesthetic sentiments, and thus purely subjective.

TORPEDO BAY - Somehow, I liked it better when the torpedoes fired from the saucer in TOS, but that's just what I was accustomed to. I would think that in practical terms, there would have to be redundant weapons banks in both the saucer and the secondary hull. And yes, both main hulls should have weapons oriented for both fore and aft.

IMPULSE DRIVE - Borrowing from the Vulcan Courier in TMP, I would like to see redundant impulse engines built-into the bottoms of the nacelles, so that the secondary hull would still have impulse power available even in the event of saucer separation. That just makes sense to me for some reason.

GIVE SAUCER SOMEWHAT GREATER DIAMETER AT THE RIM - I would want to see the refit saucer's outer rim extend outward further for greater interior volume. I would also want to see the saucer employ two mini-hangar decks so shuttlecraft and travel-pods could land on the topside in a couple of places and be lowered into the saucer, even if the saucer were separated and landed on a planet surface.

INTERIOR CONSIDERATIONS - As cheesey and card-board-looking as the TOS interior sets looked, they still looked more credible to me than the TMP sets. The TMP corridors I could live with, but the refit Bridge and Engineering were awful. Again, it seemed Hollywood wanted to impress the viewers by spending lavish budgets on the sets. I would want to instead take the same basic design used in TOS and give them a more metallic, ENT-style finish.

UNIFORMS - Surprise, surprise! I liked the TOS Uniforms more, with modifications. Maybe it would've been best if the TMP-era costumes were more like the "Where No Man Has Gone Before" unisex turtleneck-and-trousers for standard officers' duty uniforms. And maybe a cross between the TOS colored jumpsuits and the ENT jumpsuits for enlisted and "mission" dress. For rank insignia, I'm torn between braids on the sleeves and the TNG-style pips on the collar. Maybe the "Wrath of Khan" wraparound tunics could be used as "Class A" dress jackets over the turtlenecks, but I'd want to see them toned down and without the obnoxious-looking belt-and-buckle arrangement. Maybe they could be a different color; I'm thinking dark blue.

HAND PROPS - The TNG-era tricorders were always the most credible-looking to me, though they were flawed. The TMP3-TMP5-era sidearms and hand-talkies were the best update on the TOS props.
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Last edited by Wingsley; March 28 2010 at 04:20 AM. Reason: typo correction
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Old March 28 2010, 04:44 AM   #11
MarianLH
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
That said how might you tweak the refit design, outside or in, to make it more to your liking?
I think, if I had to change something, it would be the pylons. I'd make them a little sturdier in cross section, and with less (maybe no) flaring out between the hull and nacelle ends.


kaisernathan1701 wrote: View Post
Have the Warp Nacelles glow like TNG Miranda or Galaxy class designs
Absolutely not. That kiddie cartoon glowie crap is to lighting what red velvet wallpaper is to interior decorating.


Marian
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Old March 28 2010, 03:21 PM   #12
Forbin
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

The thing I miss most in later designs is that big red pennant-and-number on the nacelles. I'd have kept the outer nacelles halves as solid with no grill, and kept that pennant (or at least the newer version of it). I have no actual complaints about the rest of the ship.

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Old March 28 2010, 03:51 PM   #13
Warped9
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Forbin wrote: View Post
The thing I miss most in later designs is that big red pennant-and-number on the nacelles. I'd have kept the outer nacelles halves as solid with no grill, and kept that pennant (or at least the newer version of it). I have no actual complaints about the rest of the ship.

Wow! I'd never thought about it before. So simple yet that makes a huge difference.

It occurs to me, as I'm sure it has occurred to others, how much of the original E could have been carried over to the refit. Of course I'm speaking primarily of structural members since it pretty self evident that nothing of the exterior survived the transition.

You know it would have been a nice touch if the original commissioning plaque could have been seen on the refit bridge.

An idea that long been lurking in the back of my mind is drawing what I think could have been a more credible refit of the TOS E that could still have been used on the big screen. I've toyed with it before and one day I'm going to get serious about. I just wish I could 3D model.
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Old March 28 2010, 04:49 PM   #14
Jeyl
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

If you ask me, the neck based torpedo launchers never did it for me. The less "These are weapons!" looking the better.
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Old March 28 2010, 08:49 PM   #15
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Re: Playing with the refit Enterprise...

Forbin wrote: View Post
The thing I miss most in later designs is that big red pennant-and-number on the nacelles. I'd have kept the outer nacelles halves as solid with no grill, and kept that pennant (or at least the newer version of it). I have no actual complaints about the rest of the ship.

That looks awesome
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