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Old May 15 2010, 06:30 AM   #91
Data Holmes
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
^Certainly I've heard that all of Law & Order's location filming can get expensive. But salary escalations don't have to be a problem. I think that Lupo & Cutter are strong enough to carry the series on their own. If they have to cut Van Buren & McCoy loose to keep the show on another year, so be it.

Plus, I would like to see the show last long enough to do my idea for a proper finale; an epic 3-parter centering on the murder of Jack McCoy, which also brings back a bunch of former characters, including Logan, Ceretta, Green, & Fontana volunteering to help Lupo & Bernard canvas witnesses. Stone, Schiff, & Branch would provide Cutter with extra legal advice. Robinette & Southerlyn would defend the murderer. Ross & Carmichael would be the ones at the beginning who first discover the body. Just for the hell of it (because I'm a big Trial by Jury fan), Tracy Kibre would be the judge. In the final scene, as they all have a drink in Jack's office, toasting his memory, they make veiled comments about what a long, enjoyable journey it's been. Right before Adam Schiff turns out the lights for the last time, the camera zooms in on a photo on Jack's desk of him with Claire Kincaid.
Now that would be one hell of a end to the show...

Top it off with the funeral being covered at the end of CI and SVU that same week as well to tie it all together in.
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Old May 15 2010, 07:19 AM   #92
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Okay, so let's break the issue down:

First, the ratings. I was under the impression that L&O had remained fairly consistent in the ratings since its inception, but a quick glance at Wikipedia reveals that it has indeed faltered a little over the last couple of years. (Interestingly, this occurred around the same time that NBC first moved the show out of its long-standing Wednesday 10:00 pm timeslot.)

Second, the spin-offs. Here's where the issue gets a little murkier. Are SVU and CI really doing better in the ratings than L&O? If so, does anybody know why? Also, does anybody know why NBC thinks LOLA will do better in ratings than the current L&O, or why LOLA will be cheaper to produce than L&O? (And what are contractual salary escalators, anyway?)

Third, the ending. L&O has always been one of those shows that doesn't draw much on its long-standing history, and this is what makes the show so accessible for newcomers and casual viewers. L&O didn't begin with any kind of grand premiere (there was nothing special about the first episode), it doesn't do season-ending cliffhangers, and it doesn't maintain seasons-long story arcs. In the same spirit, I don't think the show needs any kind of grand retrospective to end it. At least we won't be left with any unresolved cliffhangers (*knock on wood*).

In any case, it sounds like the show is ending for reasons that are as political as they are financial, which is really too bad. But as frequent posters have pointed out, NBC's current execs seen to have trouble keeping the station afloat, so maybe this isn't too surprising.

I also second the motion that the end of the series might see faster releases to DVD. I always assumed that the slow pace was because reruns do so well on TNT, and nobody wanted to undercut rerun viewerships with DVD sales. However, does anybody know if there are other reasons the show has been so slow to DVD?
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Old May 15 2010, 03:01 PM   #93
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

The execs at the network (known in house as No Body Cares) make stupid decisions and the fans get s***d, again.

I agree, I wouldn't miss NBC if it went dark. 13 new eps for a proper send off (McCoy idea )

I'm sorry Wolf didn't have a chance to pull a "Lost" and say, "give me X years and I'll give you a wrap worth it."

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Old May 15 2010, 05:57 PM   #94
wamdue
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

you know I had a look at the NBC schedule, and ok I cant judge the new shows, but if I was to live in the US, the only show I would watch on NBC would be 30 Rock.
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Old May 15 2010, 06:27 PM   #95
bigdaddy
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Andonagio wrote: View Post
Okay, so let's break the issue down:

Second, the spin-offs. Here's where the issue gets a little murkier. Are SVU and CI really doing better in the ratings than L&O? If so, does anybody know why? Also, does anybody know why NBC thinks LOLA will do better in ratings than the current L&O, or why LOLA will be cheaper to produce than L&O? (And what are contractual salary escalators, anyway?)
A new LA show will be cheaper to make because it's new and in LA. But it's LA and what the hell is there to look at? I won't be watching.

L&O was on Fridays getting some of the best ratings NBC saw, sure the demo was horrid, but when 7+ million people are watching a show on a shit network.

So it was mainly NBC's stupidity that is the reason it got canceled. Really 12-13 episodes to end the show when several of the new drama's fail? Too much to ask? Even David E. Kelly blackmailed ABC to giving him 13 final episodes of Boston Legal. Dick Wolf should do the same.
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Old May 15 2010, 07:30 PM   #96
Star Wolf
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
KB24 wrote: View Post
Is this season over for L&O? Even if its not, surely the final eps are in the can. There is no way to do a proper conclusion to the series now. If the writing was on the wall with low ratings and bad blood between Wolf and NBC, then the network should have made the cancel decision mid season, in order to at least give a 20 year series time to wrap itself up. That's like canceling All My Children tomorrow in the middle of a Susan Lucci storyline. Respect people!
According to epguides it has three more episodes to air over the next two weeks, so the episodes would be in the can already.

Incidentally, CBS did the same thing to Gunsmoke at the end of its 20-season run. The cast and crew finished work on the 20th season, had their season wrap party and went home thinking the network was bringing the show back for another season. Then CBS cancelled the show, so it had no special finale episode and the cast and crew had no special final wrap party to say goodbye to each other.
Well it makes sense for L&O why wrap anything up. The series always got into trouble when they tried to add "character" arcs. Ray's wife, Lenny's daughter Van Buran's cancer. The show was about the case and handing it over to the DA. That will never end. Cops retire and a new generation steps forward to do the same thing over and over again.

Law & Order should end like it almost always ends with the epilogue after yet another trial. As we know the next day a body will be discovered and some homicide detectives will catch the next case.
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Old May 15 2010, 08:11 PM   #97
Dusty Ayres
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Wingsley wrote: View Post
4: In the 1990's, NBC let Johnny Carson retire (never to resurface) and let Letterman slip away to CBS. Pathetic mistake.
Carson retired of his own accord; he had been doing the Tonight Show since the early '60's, and wanted to stop and hand the reins over to Letterman. In fact, he'd almost quit in 1980, but was talked into staying on; the price for this was the ending of all of those Art Fern/Aunt Flabby/Floyd R. Turbo skits (which resulted in an indirect life spiral for his co-participant Carol Brady, who ended up dead in Mexico in 1985!) and a slight shortening of the show.
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Old May 15 2010, 08:12 PM   #98
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

^ Carol Wayne, actually. Carol Brady was the wife from The Brady Bunch.

"Now back to our feature film: Woody Harrelson, Woody Allen, Woody Woodpecker, Woody Herman, Herman Munster, and Dumpo the Wonder Pigeon, in Heidi Suffers an Estrogen Avalanche!"
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Old May 15 2010, 08:25 PM   #99
Dusty Ayres
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Carol Wayne, actually. Carol Brady was the wife from The Brady Bunch.

"Now back to our feature film: Woody Harrelson, Woody Allen, Woody Woodpecker, Woody Herman, Herman Munster, and Dumpo the Wonder Pigeon, in Heidi Suffers an Estrogen Avalanche!"
Thanks for the corrections and the laughs!
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Old May 15 2010, 08:38 PM   #100
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

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Old May 15 2010, 09:29 PM   #101
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

bigdaddy wrote: View Post

A new LA show will be cheaper to make because it's new and in LA.
Really? Why is it cheaper to film in LA than NY? And why is a new show cheaper to film than another season of an existing show?
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Old May 15 2010, 10:20 PM   #102
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Andonagio wrote: View Post
Why is it cheaper to film in LA than NY?
About the only thing I can think of is that most of the 'Hollywood' apparatus is still located in/near L.A. Plus New York City is more crowded and thus harder to get a camera crew onto the streets.

Although I personally like to rationalize it like this: Since New York actors are better, they are probably more expensive to hire.

(Apparently, Broadway actors absolutely LOVE doing Law & Order. Since most L&O shooting is during the day, an actor can do the show then, and still be available to do theater at night. And it's beneficial for the L&O crew as well, since they can just pop down to Broadway and find a ready-made list of guest stars!)
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Old May 15 2010, 11:31 PM   #103
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

NBC made my shit-list last night when I saw this on the local news.
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Old May 15 2010, 11:42 PM   #104
dru
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

The series is one of the few I watched from the pilot on until recently. For me the "mothership" L&O has never been quite the same without Jerry Orbach.

For me the worst thing was McCoy becoming DA. Despite all those years on the show, he just doesn't have the gravitas for the part that Steven Hill or Fred Thompson brought.

As for "LOLA" I just have to ask them: "WHY?" I live in southern CA and even I don't want a L&O show about fracking L.A. I'll probably peek at the pilot depending on the cast. The "culture" of L&O is NY. I wonder if they'll have a Mike Post theme.

I do watch SouthLAnd which is best focusing on the beat cops and Regina King's detective character but even it isn't as good as "The Shield." I haven't seen a second of LOLA and I'm already negatively anticipating a spate of tired cliches and SoCA "archetypes."

If nothing else, Law & Order was RELIABLE television for the viewer.
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Old May 16 2010, 12:49 AM   #105
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Re: NBC cancels Law & Order

Andonagio wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post

A new LA show will be cheaper to make because it's new and in LA.
Really? Why is it cheaper to film in LA than NY? And why is a new show cheaper to film than another season of an existing show?
Well salaries tend to go up for actors with each additional season, but this shouldn't be too much of a factor for L&O considering the rotating cast, not to mention the fact that Van Buren may very well die and McCoy's reduced role as DA.
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