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Old May 12 2010, 07:30 PM   #76
Hober Mallow
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Lord Garth wrote: View Post
Movies look great on Blu-Ray. TV shows from the '70s, '80s, and '90s look like shit.

TOS looks the same on Blu-Ray as it does on regular DVD.
No. It doesn't. It looks much better on blu-ray.
Fine. I haven't really given it much thought to be honest.

New shows, shot in high definition, look great.
Old shows were also shot in "high definition" on film, you just never could see it before blu-ray and HD TV. There is, in fact, more detail on the film of old TV shows from the 60s than even modern HDTVs will let you see.

The Twilight Zone is about to be released on blu-ray, and that's a show that premiered in 1959. The DVD versions of the HD remasters have already been released, and the picture is amazing. I can't wait to actually see it in HD.
I was talking about shows from the '70s, '80s, and '90s not looking good. The ones shot/edited on video.

So you're telling me things I already know about pre-1970 series.
Fair enough.

Certainly the shows that were edited on video aren't going to look any better unless they go back to the original film. I think it's only a matter of time before they do that. Unfortunately for some shows, the film wasn't saved. I believe they ended up throwing or losing the original film for the 80s Twilight Zone, which means the crappy video edits are all that exist.

I find DVDs upconverted to be kind of hit or miss. From my experience, the shows that were edited on videotape like TNG and Alien Nation tend to look pretty crappy upconverted, while those that were not edited on videotape tend to look pretty darn good. I'm no videophile so I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has to do with videotape noise screwing with the upconversion process. So even though I love blu-ray, I only watch certain DVDs on a DVD player.
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
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DVD already had perfect picture.
No, it didn't. Not even close.

DVD had *good* picture. Certainly better than VHS or even broadcast TV. But perfect? Hardly.

The only "perfect picture" is actual reality.

I got to be honest, I consider DVD picture to be better than reality. Add that it's better than VHS, broadcast TV and (IMO) even movie theatres, it truly is the best picture around.
I can say it's my opinion Abraham Lincoln is still alive, it doesn't make it fact. Not only is the resolution of blu-ray much better than that of DVD, but in a theater you're getting a much better picture. If you tried to play a standard DVD on movie theater screen, it would look like garbage, far worse than the most degraded VHS you may own.

You're certainly entitled to prefer DVD. My daughter is a staunch VHS fan. Your preference, however, doesn't change the actual resolution.

On my Star Trek blu-rays,. I can pause an image of Kirk's face and see ever pore on his face and every piece of fabric on his uniform. I can't do that with the DVDs.
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Old May 12 2010, 10:07 PM   #77
LitmusDragon
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

On the subject of video resolution, which I find very interesting, 35mm film is capable of much more than even high def can provide us at this point. Most would estimate the "pixel" resolution of a 35mm print has at least 1400 lines of video resolution (compared to 1080 on current HD), and some would estimate the number as high as 2400 lines of resolution. So HD is a leap of about twice the lines of resolution over DVD, or about 4x total resolution, but in theory it's possible that film transfers could have much higher resolutions, even 16x or higher than that of a DVD, on some future technology. This is to say nothing of films that are produced in iMax.
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Old May 12 2010, 10:27 PM   #78
jefferiestubes8
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35mm film and digital video formats

LitmusDragon wrote: View Post
On the subject of video resolution, which I find very interesting, 35mm film is capable of much more than even high def can provide us at this point.
LitmusDragon check this post out.

film vs 6k/8k datacine/telecine for Blu-ray
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=68

and for that matter you may as well checkout:
Super Hi-vision (SHV) & Ultra High Definition Video (UHDV), Ultra High Definition Television (UHDTV)
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3017865&postcount=82
as that will be around in 2020-2025.
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Old May 12 2010, 11:24 PM   #79
Trekker4747
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Yoda wrote: View Post
Anyway, if your TV does suck at scaling, there's still not much of a point of buying a standalone upconverting DVD player. Just spend a little more, get a PS3, or a standalone Blu-ray that does a decent job of scaling, and voila! So yeah, Trekker4747's main points are valid. Upconverting DVD players are largely worthless, and the upconverting process does not improve an image.
Well, it was more my point that "upscaling" players aren't adding detail that isn't there. They can't. All they can do is add a "best guess" to make the picture fill the screen rather than filling up half of the picture.

If they ever do make higher resolution TVs any "upscaling" on decades old DVD would make them look a pixilated as a Mario game. Because all the "upscaling" can do it make a guess, take averages, or do something to make the picture bigger. But it doesn't know what was there in the camera to make the picture more detailed.
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Old May 13 2010, 02:21 AM   #80
AviTrek
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
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Lord Garth wrote: View Post
Movies look great on Blu-Ray. TV shows from the '70s, '80s, and '90s look like shit.

TOS looks the same on Blu-Ray as it does on regular DVD. New shows, shot in high definition, look great.

I won't even go into 3-D or RGBY. Not now. I think it's stupid to introduce these new luxury items during the Second Great Depression. And, yes, that's what it is even though people won't bring themselves to admit it. They shouldn't strong-arm people into making these types of purchases during times like these.
If you think people are being strong-armed into buying something they can't afford, maybe it's your own weak resolve to keep your purse-strings tight that's speaking here
Okay, that's two replies, regarding this, and I don't appreciate this second one with the smug smile at the end when you don't know anything about me or my shopping tendencies.

I'm not going to buy 3D or RGBY any time soon, nor do I have any plans to in the future. Okay? All right? I'm not going to buy 3D or RGBY any time soon, or do I have any plans to do so in the future.

Some people will buy whatever because they're always into buying the newest whatever. Have you never heard of techies? Ever in your life? Well, I'm not one of them. I'm not one of them.

Let's also not forget in 2009 when anyone who still had analog television was forced to make the switch to digital. That's strong-arming in my opinion. Not to you or I, but if someone was still sticking with analog at that point, it was likely they'd have stuck with it until their TV broke down and they had to buy a new one.
No one was forced to buy a new TV. If they were cable subscribers their cable boxes still worked. If their cable company went digital, they were given a new box to handle it and convert down to SD. And if they watched OTA, then the government was generous enough to give them a $40 coupon to buy a converter box.
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Old May 13 2010, 06:30 AM   #81
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Aside from having to upgrade to yet ANOTHER tech standard, I object to the interconnected nature of Blu Ray players, which have to have their software upgraded on a continuing basis from what I've been told. Not only would I be paying for an "incomplete" product, I don't want some snoopy corp to be able to see what I've been playing and how many times I've played it, or to be able to lock up my system for any reason they might dream up (the way the monitoring parts of some of the newer versions of Windows did before people bitched too much about it).

The interactive nature of Blu Ray's systemology also lends itself to something that was proposed some time ago: limited license discs. You would only be allowed so many "plays" of your disc before you had to pay another fee.
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Old May 13 2010, 06:34 AM   #82
J. Allen
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Aside from having to upgrade to yet ANOTHER tech standard, I object to the interconnected nature of Blu Ray players, which have to have their software upgraded on a continuing basis from what I've been told. Not only would I be paying for an "incomplete" product, I don't want some snoopy corp to be able to see what I've been playing and how many times I've played it, or to be able to lock up my system for any reason they might dream up (the way the monitoring parts of some of the newer versions of Windows did before people bitched too much about it).

The interactive nature of Blu Ray's systemology also lends itself to something that was proposed some time ago: limited license discs. You would only be allowed so many "plays" of your disc before you had to pay another fee.
My Blu-ray player is not connected to a network, nor does it get updated by one. I have never updated it, and I can play the latest Blu-rays without a problem.
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Old May 13 2010, 06:42 AM   #83
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Not only would I be paying for an "incomplete" product
No, you wouldn't. But as new Blu-Ray titles are released, some players will need to be updated. Some won't. I've had my player for almost a year and it has only had one firmware update, but many, MANY Blu-Rays have been released in the meantime. Other players have to be updated almost every time a major title comes out.

I don't want some snoopy corp to be able to see what I've been playing and how many times I've played it
They can't do that.

The interactive nature of Blu Ray's systemology also lends itself to something that was proposed some time ago: limited license discs. You would only be allowed so many "plays" of your disc before you had to pay another fee.
There are no such discs.
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Old May 13 2010, 08:07 AM   #84
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Not only would I be paying for an "incomplete" product
No, you wouldn't. But as new Blu-Ray titles are released, some players will need to be updated. Some won't. I've had my player for almost a year and it has only had one firmware update, but many, MANY Blu-Rays have been released in the meantime. Other players have to be updated almost every time a major title comes out.
You just disproved your own statement. By definition, the product is incomplete if it requires ANY updating to continue to provide functionality. I accept this for a computer, but I see absolutely no reason why this should be so for a simple a/v program such as the controller for a disc player.

I don't want some snoopy corp to be able to see what I've been playing and how many times I've played it
They can't do that.
Can't they? If they have access to your player, which they do, who knows what sort of information they can extract from it?


The interactive nature of Blu Ray's systemology also lends itself to something that was proposed some time ago: limited license discs. You would only be allowed so many "plays" of your disc before you had to pay another fee.
There are no such discs.
Yet.

The interactive requirement of BR players would make it much much easier for the content providers to make such a product work.
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Old May 13 2010, 08:45 AM   #85
Yoda
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post

Can't they? If they have access to your player, which they do, who knows what sort of information they can extract from it?
If you're that worried that Sony will find out about your hentai collection, a lot of 'em will update off a disc or USB or something.
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Old May 13 2010, 09:08 AM   #86
Trubinator
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Not on Blu-ray. No newer movie will look anywhere near as good as a Blu release. 3-D? Yeah. It'll take a while before that technology is good enough to own.
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Old May 13 2010, 09:11 AM   #87
Silent_Bob
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

I'm not a sceptic about Blu-Ray, whilst i don't think it was necessary to try to foist a format change onto the consumer yet, it does provide a number of benefits making it worthwhile.

3-D on the other hand is nothing more than an overpriced, underwhelming fad and i have no intention of indulging in it.
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Old May 15 2010, 01:53 AM   #88
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
By definition, the product is incomplete if it requires ANY updating to continue to provide functionality.
Blu-Ray titles are getting more complicated all the time.

I accept this for a computer, but I see absolutely no reason why this should be so for a simple a/v program such as the controller for a disc player.
Blu-Ray players are not simple. Not like DVD players. A Blu-Ray player *is* a computer, in essence.

If they have access to your player, which they do, who knows what sort of information they can extract from it?
They can't extract anything. Certainly not like this. They have no idea what you've watched - and more to the point, they don't CARE.


The interactive nature of Blu Ray's systemology also lends itself to something that was proposed some time ago: limited license discs. You would only be allowed so many "plays" of your disc before you had to pay another fee.
There are no such discs.
Yet.
They tried that once already, years ago, with 'Divx' (Digital Video Express) and that died a quick death.
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Old May 15 2010, 02:54 AM   #89
Tulin
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
They tried that once already, years ago, with 'Divx' (Digital Video Express) and that died a quick death.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!



Tell that to anybody who downloads.
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Old May 15 2010, 03:02 AM   #90
Hyperspace05
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Re: Are you a Blu-Ray & 3D skeptic?

Tulin wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
They tried that once already, years ago, with 'Divx' (Digital Video Express) and that died a quick death.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!



Tell that to anybody who downloads.
So... What is your point?

If the alternative is Blu-Ray or digital downloads? What exactly is better in this regard?

Blu-ray is likely the last generation of digital media that you will be able to 'own' in this way... Enjoy it while you can, instead if worrying iof future titles will be released that way.
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