RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 146,951
Posts: 5,797,661
Members: 26,053
Currently online: 569
Newest member: Tribbles69

TrekToday headlines

Shatner Show Coming To Australia
By: T'Bonz on Jul 27

Star Trek Beyond Wigs
By: T'Bonz on Jul 27

Star Trek Beyond Adds New Cast Member
By: T'Bonz on Jul 27

Pegg: No Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Stewart Snotbot Support
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Ryan Joins Arrow
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Retro Review: Jetrel
By: Michelle on Jul 24

New ThinkGeek Trek-Themed Products
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

Star Trek The Cabin
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

Bikel Passes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 10 2010, 12:49 PM   #1
Mr Pointy Ears
Captain
 
Location: Adelaide,australia
section 31,will they be like?,...

With the way S31 does things,and with no-one to stop them could they become in the next few years the federation's version of the tal shiar?,with every federation citizen being afraid of them?.
Mr Pointy Ears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2010, 12:56 PM   #2
Cheapjack
Fleet Captain
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Section 31, don't officially exist. If their existence was confirmed, they might be less powerful, but M15 in England and the CIA are very powerful. One can only hope they they have some form of self control. I think they are supposed to be more feared by the Federations enemy's than by it's own citizens. I don't know whether Section 31 is external or internal.

Last edited by Cheapjack; April 10 2010 at 02:06 PM.
Cheapjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2010, 03:46 PM   #3
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Considering only a handful of Federation citizens are even aware of Section 31's existence, I don't see how the entire population will become afraid of them.

Also, Section 31 lasted 200 years without becoming Tal Shiar like, I don't see why they would undergo such a drastic transformation within "the next few years."

I'm pretty sure they only deal with external threats anyway.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2010, 01:28 PM   #4
Cheapjack
Fleet Captain
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

I tell you one thing, I don't think Section 31 would be on to you, if you wrote a story, saying that things would have evolved and changed and the 24thC system would be different by the 28th.

I think they would be happy with that.

I do think that they will have wiped some citizens out completely, erased them from the record and society, for no other reason than they looked at them the wrong way, or just for the pleasure of it, and for no other reason that they can. They won't be perfect.

Last edited by Cheapjack; April 11 2010 at 05:22 PM.
Cheapjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 07:41 AM   #5
Rojixus
Commander
 
Rojixus's Avatar
 
Location: the Dreadfort
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

I know that if Section 31 ever does reveal itself, it will prove to be their undoing.
Rojixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2010, 06:24 AM   #6
Harry Palmer
Admiral
 
Harry Palmer's Avatar
 
Location: With The Section
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post

Also, Section 31 lasted 200 years without becoming Tal Shiar like, I don't see why they would undergo such a drastic transformation within "the next few years."

I'm pretty sure they only deal with external threats anyway.

Section 31 deals with "threats to the Federation" that's a rather nebulous mandate. We know that 31 engaged in domestic operations going so far as placing an agent in the Federation President's Cabinet! Section 31 is far more more dangerous than the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order two organizations which relied as much on the fear of the populous to carry out their mandates as they did actual deeds. 31 operates completely in shadow while permeating every layer of the Federation government and society. And is all works and no talk. 31 was able to develop and deploy a genocidal biological weapon within the Federation and disperse it through Starfleet Medical. An organization that can do that is capable of anything. Making the odd citizen or colony or even starship disappear in the name of defending the Federation is well within their capability and their character.


Cheapjack wrote: View Post

I do think that they will have wiped some citizens out completely, erased them from the record and society, for no other reason than they looked at them the wrong way, or just for the pleasure of it, and for no other reason that they can. They won't be perfect.
No, no Section 31 is made up of the most dangerous thing in the universe idealists. They do what they do because they believe in the cause. If they hurt somebody or disappear someone it will be for the cause since that'sthe only way they can reconcile their activities with the ideals of Federation they are protecting. They have to do what they do so others can sleep soundly at night. The petty minded thugs you describe simply couldn't survive in that type of outfit.
__________________
Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pulling in all kinds of directions is the only way to make progress. -- From The Truth by Terry Pratchett

Last edited by Harry Palmer; April 25 2010 at 06:36 AM.
Harry Palmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2010, 08:42 AM   #7
Maniarek
Lieutenant
 
Maniarek's Avatar
 
Location: Hong Kong
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Mr Pointy Ears wrote: View Post
With the way S31 does things,and with no-one to stop them could they become in the next few years the federation's version of the tal shiar?,with every federation citizen being afraid of them?.
No, it would go against their principles and objectives of operating covertly and in the shadows of the Federation, and being officially non-existent. Their existence is not even known to the vast majority of the public, government and Starfleet, and that status quo is something they would never want to endanger. They have no intention of running the government or its people, and have no political affiliation. They exist simply to exterminate any threats that the Federation is unable to get rid of on its own, or doesn't even know about (think about how unbelievable that sounds).

The scope of their power is frightening, but it’s thanks to them and their hidden existence that the Federation is still intact.

Maniarek.

Last edited by Maniarek; April 25 2010 at 10:42 AM.
Maniarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26 2010, 02:36 AM   #8
ChadHydro
Lieutenant
 
ChadHydro's Avatar
 
Location: The Alpha Quadrant - where all the good parties are
View ChadHydro's Twitter Profile
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Maniarek wrote: View Post
[
The scope of their power is frightening, but it’s thanks to them and their hidden existence that the Federation is still intact.

Maniarek.
Personally, I'm not convinced of that. I think someone thought they were a good idea at one point. But I'd bet that the Federation could take care of itself on its own without having a hidden faction undermining the very values that it was built on in the name of preservation.
__________________
Life, According to Star Trek
ChadHydro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26 2010, 11:59 AM   #9
Cheapjack
Fleet Captain
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Callan wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post

Also, Section 31 lasted 200 years without becoming Tal Shiar like, I don't see why they would undergo such a drastic transformation within "the next few years."

I'm pretty sure they only deal with external threats anyway.

Section 31 deals with "threats to the Federation" that's a rather nebulous mandate. We know that 31 engaged in domestic operations going so far as placing an agent in the Federation President's Cabinet! Section 31 is far more more dangerous than the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order two organizations which relied as much on the fear of the populous to carry out their mandates as they did actual deeds. 31 operates completely in shadow while permeating every layer of the Federation government and society. And is all works and no talk. 31 was able to develop and deploy a genocidal biological weapon within the Federation and disperse it through Starfleet Medical. An organization that can do that is capable of anything. Making the odd citizen or colony or even starship disappear in the name of defending the Federation is well within their capability and their character.


Cheapjack wrote: View Post

I do think that they will have wiped some citizens out completely, erased them from the record and society, for no other reason than they looked at them the wrong way, or just for the pleasure of it, and for no other reason that they can. They won't be perfect.
No, no Section 31 is made up of the most dangerous thing in the universe idealists. They do what they do because they believe in the cause. If they hurt somebody or disappear someone it will be for the cause since that'sthe only way they can reconcile their activities with the ideals of Federation they are protecting. They have to do what they do so others can sleep soundly at night. The petty minded thugs you describe simply couldn't survive in that type of outfit.
You read in the papers of the police pursuing vendettas against the wrong people for years, for no other reason than they can and they are bored and have little else to do.
Perhaps Section 31 will be too professional and big-minded to do this.

Even so,I bet they've callously removed some people from the record completely. They may even do anything to cover up a mistake, or bad decision, even if it means wiping out somebody. Maybe not.
Cheapjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26 2010, 07:46 PM   #10
Harry Palmer
Admiral
 
Harry Palmer's Avatar
 
Location: With The Section
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Cheapjack wrote: View Post
Callan wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post

Also, Section 31 lasted 200 years without becoming Tal Shiar like, I don't see why they would undergo such a drastic transformation within "the next few years."

I'm pretty sure they only deal with external threats anyway.

Section 31 deals with "threats to the Federation" that's a rather nebulous mandate. We know that 31 engaged in domestic operations going so far as placing an agent in the Federation President's Cabinet! Section 31 is far more more dangerous than the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order two organizations which relied as much on the fear of the populous to carry out their mandates as they did actual deeds. 31 operates completely in shadow while permeating every layer of the Federation government and society. And is all works and no talk. 31 was able to develop and deploy a genocidal biological weapon within the Federation and disperse it through Starfleet Medical. An organization that can do that is capable of anything. Making the odd citizen or colony or even starship disappear in the name of defending the Federation is well within their capability and their character.


Cheapjack wrote: View Post

I do think that they will have wiped some citizens out completely, erased them from the record and society, for no other reason than they looked at them the wrong way, or just for the pleasure of it, and for no other reason that they can. They won't be perfect.
No, no Section 31 is made up of the most dangerous thing in the universe idealists. They do what they do because they believe in the cause. If they hurt somebody or disappear someone it will be for the cause since that'sthe only way they can reconcile their activities with the ideals of Federation they are protecting. They have to do what they do so others can sleep soundly at night. The petty minded thugs you describe simply couldn't survive in that type of outfit.
You read in the papers of the police pursuing vendettas against the wrong people for years, for no other reason than they can and they are bored and have little else to do.
Perhaps Section 31 will be too professional and big-minded to do this.

Even so,I bet they've callously removed some people from the record completely. They may even do anything to cover up a mistake, or bad decision, even if it means wiping out somebody. Maybe not.

I'm sure they'd go to whatever lengths were necessary to remove a potential threat to the Federation. A person prone to pursuing petty vendettas would not make it in an organization like 31. They might be used as an agent/asset, but they'd never be brought in as an officer/handler.
__________________
Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pulling in all kinds of directions is the only way to make progress. -- From The Truth by Terry Pratchett
Harry Palmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28 2010, 07:05 AM   #11
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: Montgomery County, State of Maryland
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Maniarek wrote: View Post
The scope of their power is frightening, but it’s thanks to them and their hidden existence that the Federation is still intact.
Says who? Them? Yeah, they're a real trustworthy source, aren't they?

Show me actual evidence that Section 31 has ever saved the Federation.
__________________
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2010, 11:14 AM   #12
Cheapjack
Fleet Captain
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Callan wrote: View Post
Cheapjack wrote: View Post
Callan wrote: View Post


Section 31 deals with "threats to the Federation" that's a rather nebulous mandate. We know that 31 engaged in domestic operations going so far as placing an agent in the Federation President's Cabinet! Section 31 is far more more dangerous than the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order two organizations which relied as much on the fear of the populous to carry out their mandates as they did actual deeds. 31 operates completely in shadow while permeating every layer of the Federation government and society. And is all works and no talk. 31 was able to develop and deploy a genocidal biological weapon within the Federation and disperse it through Starfleet Medical. An organization that can do that is capable of anything. Making the odd citizen or colony or even starship disappear in the name of defending the Federation is well within their capability and their character.




No, no Section 31 is made up of the most dangerous thing in the universe idealists. They do what they do because they believe in the cause. If they hurt somebody or disappear someone it will be for the cause since that'sthe only way they can reconcile their activities with the ideals of Federation they are protecting. They have to do what they do so others can sleep soundly at night. The petty minded thugs you describe simply couldn't survive in that type of outfit.
You read in the papers of the police pursuing vendettas against the wrong people for years, for no other reason than they can and they are bored and have little else to do.
Perhaps Section 31 will be too professional and big-minded to do this.

Even so,I bet they've callously removed some people from the record completely. They may even do anything to cover up a mistake, or bad decision, even if it means wiping out somebody. Maybe not.

I'm sure they'd go to whatever lengths were necessary to remove a potential threat to the Federation. A person prone to pursuing petty vendettas would not make it in an organization like 31. They might be used as an agent/asset, but they'd never be brought in as an officer/handler.
If Section 31 are the 24thC equivalent of the CIA, didn't the CIA indulge themselves in not so petty vendettas? They had it in for Kennedy, after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, when some of them got killed. At least, that's what I heard. Someone should do a story of how Section31 killed or ruined a 24thC golden boy for the same reasons.
Cheapjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2010, 09:02 PM   #13
Delta1
Fleet Captain
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Cheapjack wrote: View Post
If Section 31 are the 24thC equivalent of the CIA, didn't the CIA indulge themselves in not so petty vendettas? They had it in for Kennedy, after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, when some of them got killed. At least, that's what I heard.
I saw that episode of The X-Files, too.
Delta1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2010, 10:48 PM   #14
Arpy
Rear Admiral
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

[begin rant]Section 31 are a bunch of sociopaths hidden in patriotic...no, I was going to say garb, but look at them. Even their garb says they're sociopaths. They're delusional. They're fanatics who've chosen a worthy cause but go about it not because they care about the Federation but by their own need to be martyrs.

Whatever good they've done...you could go out and murder a child-molester: it gets rid of a problem, but does it solve the problem? And the cost of the good it does is far too much bad.
Arpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3 2010, 05:17 AM   #15
Delta1
Fleet Captain
 
Re: section 31,will they be like?,...

Arpy wrote: View Post
Whatever good they've done...you could go out and murder a child-molester: it gets rid of a problem, but does it solve the problem?
You can investigate, prosecute, jail, and possibly rehabilitate a child molester: it gets rid of a problem, but does it solve the problem? If I take your meaning, neither case solves *the* problem, so we should refrain from both courses of action.
Delta1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.