Seven of Kes

Udat · May 1 2010, 10:09 PM

Do you think the trade off for Kes for Seven was worth it?!

Lor'Vela · May 1 2010, 11:00 PM

If you asked me by the end of Season 4, I would have said yes. But on reflection of the whole series, I think I would have prefered it if they stuck with Kes, because quite frankly, I just did not like the direction the Seven character took. She just bugged me as the seasons went on, what with her relentless speeches about being severed from the collective, the screentime she had and the way she just expresses anger all the time. Seven just... bored me.

DonIago · May 1 2010, 11:15 PM

You know the funny thing? I'm not sure. I'd love to say I would definitely think so if they'd traded Kim for Seven instead, but I do love Timeless just the way it is.

Without knowing what direction the series would have gone in had Kes remained, I can't give a firm answer.

Miss Chicken · May 1 2010, 11:24 PM

Yes, absolutely.

There is no major character on Star Trek that I disliked more than Kes. She was just so sickly sweet and her voice annoyed me.

Shatinator · May 1 2010, 11:28 PM

I choose Other, they could of easily had kept her and Killed of Harry, which is what they orginally intended to do, until that dawm TV guide issue that had him as one of the sexist males on TV???

If she had stayed and killed Harry, it could of provided some good character growth for Janeway, on the true cost of her sometimes 'insane' choices

-that they can have TRUE costs, that you can not re-set. Esspecially considering how protective she was of Harry. Also the Kes / Tuvok relationship could of devolped nicely along with her powers, that alone could of produced some good ep's. They could of also taken a serious exploration of her 7 yr life span and how to deal with in, far better than "Fury" turned out. All this and they still could of had the Seven ep we knew. To me it would of been a win-win. I would of also liked to of seen how a Kes / Seven scene would play out, can you imagine a Kes / Doctor / Seven scene...ohh the humanity.

-The Shatinator

Joeman · May 1 2010, 11:35 PM

If Fury was any any real indication as to where they would have taken Kes, then definitely.

I really didn't see much use for the Kes character anyway. I mean I liked her OK and all, but the whole relationship with Neelix thing was just dreadful. She really didn't have enough of a back story to base many episodes around her, or at least not to the level that Seven had.

Great tradeoff in my opinion.

DonIago · May 2 2010, 12:11 AM

Hm. Can we keep Seven and not only ditch Kes, but also Neelix and/or Kim?

I can't wait to hear Lynx chime in on this one...

StarryEyed · May 2 2010, 01:46 AM

Absolutely.

I don't have a problem with Kes specifically but the Ocompa is one of the most ridiculous races ever conceived in Star Trek.

Humanoid but mature in a year with a lifespan of less than ten? Carry babies in a pouch on their back? Almost god-like psionic abilities? Right.

MeanJoePhaser · May 2 2010, 01:51 AM

Other.

They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.

kimc · May 2 2010, 04:02 AM

Lor'Vela wrote:

If you asked me by the end of Season 4, I would have said yes. But on reflection of the whole series, I think I would have prefered it if they stuck with Kes, because quite frankly, I just did not like the direction the Seven character took.

I don't think they should have dumped Kes just to bring on Seven. Sure she was an interesting character at first and Ryan is a good actress but the borg became way overdone and Seven was reduced to Mary Sue status by the finale.

Voyagerian · May 2 2010, 05:10 AM

I'm sure plenty of folks can argue against it from either a preferential POV, or how they view it improved the series by having Seven on, but, certainly in the former vein, no, can't say I personally cared for the addition,at cost of the other, but, I would have had no problems with having both on STV.If one likes Seven, fine, you won't hear me bashing her publicly.And, yes, to be fair, they created another 'Spock-like' char. for the show, a commentator on the human condition, something Neelix(poor, maligned fellow he seems to so often be here) and Kes were initially intended to help serve as.Berman says they failed in being able to find something further for Kes, well, then, the fault is there.It does stink, that one poll had some impact, or has often been said so, for keeping Wang vs. Lien, not that I didn't like Kim(Another targeted STV crewmember in some circles) It shouldn't have had to come down to that, but, there ya go.

Kathryn-janeway · May 2 2010, 02:54 PM

I liked both characters. But i think kes should have stayed tbh, I loved the bond janeway and kes had together for example the times kes would go to janeways quarters to talk and the times janeway hugged kes when she was down ect. But i thought janeway had a very different approach to seven, don't get me wrong she treated seven and kes the same, but janeways was more of a mentor to seven in regards to developing her in to a human and not a borg.! i like both actress and characters but i think Jennifer did a wonderful job and its a shame paramount let her go and choose Jeri because she would boost ratings, which i just dont find very fair. They should of got rid of wang, kes and 7 could have been more developed than kim. But at the end of the day it really dosent matter because it was mainly focused around janeway 7 and the doctor.

Adm_Hawthorne · May 2 2010, 04:17 PM

Yes, I think it was a good trade off.

By mid-season 3, it was becoming fairly apparent the writers didn't really know what to do with Kes. They weren't really tackling the fact that she only had 7 years to live, and they were trying to really push her in a Mary Sue direction where she was going to develop these super elite mental powers. Kes was never meant to be a Mary Sue character.

I think, if the writers had kept her, they would have completely destroyed her.

As it stood, they removed her before they could do any more damage, and I'm okay with that.

Lynx · May 2 2010, 05:19 PM

No, definitely not.

Kes was a much better character and the show was also much better in seasons 1-3 when all characters had their share of the spotlight.

Joeman wrote:

If Fury was any any real indication as to where they would have taken Kes, then definitely.

"Fury" was an ugly exception. It was made when the character had already been dumped for more than two seasons, there was no other reason to come up with that episode than to finally destroy the character for some weird reason.

Udat · May 2 2010, 06:07 PM

^ Now posters do not provok the Lynx, he is after all a wild animal!

View Poll Results: Trade off for Kes for Seven worth it?
Yes absolutely	45	54.88%
No	24	29.27%
Other	13	15.85%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

May 1 2010, 10:09 PM	#1
Udat Rear Admiral Location: Zimbabwe	Seven of Kes Do you think the trade off for Kes for Seven was worth it?! __________________ So What?

May 1 2010, 11:00 PM	#2
Lor'Vela Captain Location: Wherever I happen to be.	Re: Seven of Kes If you asked me by the end of Season 4, I would have said yes. But on reflection of the whole series, I think I would have prefered it if they stuck with Kes, because quite frankly, I just did not like the direction the Seven character took. She just bugged me as the seasons went on, what with her relentless speeches about being severed from the collective, the screentime she had and the way she just expresses anger all the time. Seven just... bored me. __________________ "You would make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck?! I have no time for such nonsense." -- Napoleon, commenting on Fulton's Steamship

May 1 2010, 11:15 PM	#3
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: Seven of Kes You know the funny thing? I'm not sure. I'd love to say I would definitely think so if they'd traded Kim for Seven instead, but I do love Timeless just the way it is. Without knowing what direction the series would have gone in had Kes remained, I can't give a firm answer. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

May 1 2010, 11:24 PM	#4
Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Location: Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania	Re: Seven of Kes Yes, absolutely. There is no major character on Star Trek that I disliked more than Kes. She was just so sickly sweet and her voice annoyed me. __________________ Big Brother, the people are watching YOU

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

May 1 2010, 11:28 PM	#5
Shatinator Commander Location: Virginia	Re: Seven of Kes I choose Other, they could of easily had kept her and Killed of Harry, which is what they orginally intended to do, until that dawm TV guide issue that had him as one of the sexist males on TV??? If she had stayed and killed Harry, it could of provided some good character growth for Janeway, on the true cost of her sometimes 'insane' choices -that they can have TRUE costs, that you can not re-set. Esspecially considering how protective she was of Harry. Also the Kes / Tuvok relationship could of devolped nicely along with her powers, that alone could of produced some good ep's. They could of also taken a serious exploration of her 7 yr life span and how to deal with in, far better than "Fury" turned out. All this and they still could of had the Seven ep we knew. To me it would of been a win-win. I would of also liked to of seen how a Kes / Seven scene would play out, can you imagine a Kes / Doctor / Seven scene...ohh the humanity. -The Shatinator

May 1 2010, 11:35 PM	#6
Joeman Captain Location: Purgatory	Re: Seven of Kes If Fury was any any real indication as to where they would have taken Kes, then definitely. I really didn't see much use for the Kes character anyway. I mean I liked her OK and all, but the whole relationship with Neelix thing was just dreadful. She really didn't have enough of a back story to base many episodes around her, or at least not to the level that Seven had. Great tradeoff in my opinion. __________________ My Trek Rankings by Seasons

May 2 2010, 12:11 AM	#7
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: Seven of Kes Hm. Can we keep Seven and not only ditch Kes, but also Neelix and/or Kim? I can't wait to hear Lynx chime in on this one... __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

May 2 2010, 01:46 AM	#8
StarryEyed Commodore Location: Florida Keys	Re: Seven of Kes Absolutely. I don't have a problem with Kes specifically but the Ocompa is one of the most ridiculous races ever conceived in Star Trek. Humanoid but mature in a year with a lifespan of less than ten? Carry babies in a pouch on their back? Almost god-like psionic abilities? Right.

May 2 2010, 01:51 AM	#9
MeanJoePhaser Admiral Location: Missile Command	Re: Seven of Kes Other. They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.

May 2 2010, 05:10 AM	#11
Voyagerian Commander Location: N.C.	Re: Seven of Kes I'm sure plenty of folks can argue against it from either a preferential POV, or how they view it improved the series by having Seven on, but, certainly in the former vein, no, can't say I personally cared for the addition,at cost of the other, but, I would have had no problems with having both on STV.If one likes Seven, fine, you won't hear me bashing her publicly.And, yes, to be fair, they created another 'Spock-like' char. for the show, a commentator on the human condition, something Neelix(poor, maligned fellow he seems to so often be here) and Kes were initially intended to help serve as.Berman says they failed in being able to find something further for Kes, well, then, the fault is there.It does stink, that one poll had some impact, or has often been said so, for keeping Wang vs. Lien, not that I didn't like Kim(Another targeted STV crewmember in some circles) It shouldn't have had to come down to that, but, there ya go. __________________ ''There's nowhere I would rather be, or any people I would rather be with''-Harry Kim, 'ENDGAME'

May 2 2010, 02:54 PM	#12
Kathryn-janeway Lieutenant Commander Location: UK	Re: Seven of Kes I liked both characters. But i think kes should have stayed tbh, I loved the bond janeway and kes had together for example the times kes would go to janeways quarters to talk and the times janeway hugged kes when she was down ect. But i thought janeway had a very different approach to seven, don't get me wrong she treated seven and kes the same, but janeways was more of a mentor to seven in regards to developing her in to a human and not a borg.! i like both actress and characters but i think Jennifer did a wonderful job and its a shame paramount let her go and choose Jeri because she would boost ratings, which i just dont find very fair. They should of got rid of wang, kes and 7 could have been more developed than kim. But at the end of the day it really dosent matter because it was mainly focused around janeway 7 and the doctor. __________________ "Tough guys, a little pressure and they buckle"- Jadzia Dax

May 2 2010, 04:17 PM	#13
Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Location: Not really sure anymore	Re: Seven of Kes Yes, I think it was a good trade off. By mid-season 3, it was becoming fairly apparent the writers didn't really know what to do with Kes. They weren't really tackling the fact that she only had 7 years to live, and they were trying to really push her in a Mary Sue direction where she was going to develop these super elite mental powers. Kes was never meant to be a Mary Sue character. I think, if the writers had kept her, they would have completely destroyed her. As it stood, they removed her before they could do any more damage, and I'm okay with that. __________________ My fanfiction -> You've been warned My Card

May 2 2010, 06:07 PM	#15
Udat Rear Admiral Location: Zimbabwe	Re: Seven of Kes ^ Now posters do not provok the Lynx, he is after all a wild animal! __________________ So What?