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View Poll Results: Grade Iron Man 2
Excellent 60 36.36%
Above Average 67 40.61%
Average 29 17.58%
Below Average 6 3.64%
Terrible 3 1.82%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 27 2010, 03:27 AM   #391
Admiral_Young
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

There was friction between them? If you're referring to the scene in Pepper's office when Tony comes to apologize to her then maybe...the stuff at his birthday party was more annoyance than anything else.
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Old September 27 2010, 07:11 PM   #392
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Favreau confirms some easter eggs that the internet had discussed after the movie came out.
Several large television monitors acted as the backdrop for a conversation between Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson) and Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr.). One of the monitors showcased destruction on a college campus, another displayed a crater in desert surrounding while the most interesting was of a world map; a map which pinpointed seven ambiguous locations:
"[The first is] from "The Incredible Hulk", which means ["Iron Man 2"] took place before "The Incredible Hulk." If you look you see the the crater on the other monitor, that's the "Thor" thing. That's where the hammer was recovered. This is just a geek heaven here.
"And if you think that anything on this monitors is not something we at Marvel didn't talk about for hours - you are crazy! See, there is a map up there, so... if you look at those maps, each one of those locations corresponds to something in the Marvel Universe. I'm not supposed to say that.
"And if you look on each one, and I know what they mean, but I'm not gonna say it, but I'm gonna say this: Two of them relate to "The First Avenger: Captain America," one of them relates to "Thor." The one in Africa relates to Black Panther."
So is a Black Panther movie going to happen alongside a possible Black Widow movie post Avengers? Also, is this a theme? Can we expect a Black Goliath and Black Knight movie?
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Old September 28 2010, 01:01 AM   #393
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Already saw Wakanda and Atlantis on Fury's situation board. Just means those films are possible and the characters exist within the Marvel Studio branch. As a Canadian I'm disappointed there was no icon on Canada...which I suppose makes sense since "Alpha Flight" is most likely a Fox property.
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Old September 28 2010, 09:31 AM   #394
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
There was friction between them? If you're referring to the scene in Pepper's office when Tony comes to apologize to her then maybe...
Er, yes, there was. She thought he was being irresponsible, so he made her head honcho of Stark Industries; she then continued to find him irresponsible... they have an arc from Tony's concealing his illness and Pepper's frustration to getting together at the end; the alternate opening would have sabotaged that, as well as veer the tone too far towards light comedy after the ominous Russia opening.
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Old September 28 2010, 09:55 AM   #395
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

My point was though this isn't conducive to just this movie, she's been dealing with this type of behavior from him probably since she's known him. It was only heightened in the sequel.
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Old September 28 2010, 12:15 PM   #396
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

I kinda have to side with Admiral_Young here. There has always been friction between Tony and Pepper, even from the first movie. Things just sort of naturally got worse as the plot progressed in the sequel, but they never got along that well. Also, that alternate opening establishes the same type of argumentative relationship they've been known to have throughout these movies.

I'm just not sure how the Ivan/Russia sequence would have played out chronologically speaking-- presumably the film would have opened with Tony and Pepper before the jump, and then it immediately segues to the Stark Expo sequence. My guess is that the Ivan/Russia sequence would have played directly after the Stark Expo bit had the film opened with that alternate opening.
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Old September 28 2010, 11:00 PM   #397
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
I kinda have to side with Admiral_Young here. There has always been friction between Tony and Pepper, even from the first movie. Things just sort of naturally got worse as the plot progressed in the sequel, but they never got along that well. Also, that alternate opening establishes the same type of argumentative relationship they've been known to have throughout these movies.
I'm not saying that the scene is out of character for them, I'm just saying that it would have been the wrong way to kick off their IM2 reconciliation arc. And Favs happens to agree.

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Also, that alternate opening establishes the same type of argumentative relationship they've been known to have throughout these movies.
Exactly. We saw them spar all throughout the first movie, so we don't need to see it so soon again. What we didn't see...

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
I'm just not sure how the Ivan/Russia sequence would have played out chronologically speaking-- presumably the film would have opened with Tony and Pepper before the jump, and then it immediately segues to the Stark Expo sequence. My guess is that the Ivan/Russia sequence would have played directly after the Stark Expo bit had the film opened with that alternate opening.
What, with a random "Six Months Earlier" flashback? No way.

And besides, the jokey alternate scene we're describing would have killed the dread created by the Ivan opening dead, whereas Tony's drop in the movie eases us into his more flippant world.

Anyway you cut it (har, har), the scene deserved to be left out.
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Old September 29 2010, 12:34 AM   #398
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Actually the scene was cut for time purposes. Favs really wanted it to be left in but he couldn't bring himself to keep it in, thus the immediate promise that the scene would be included with the DVD release.
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Old September 29 2010, 12:35 AM   #399
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Gaith wrote: View Post
And besides, the jokey alternate scene we're describing would have killed the dread created by the Ivan opening dead, whereas Tony's drop in the movie eases us into his more flippant world.
Good point. Better to let the dread from the Ivan Vanko opening die naturally once we realize that his backstory isn't really going to go anywhere and that he's never a particularly viable threat to Iron Man.
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Old September 29 2010, 12:37 AM   #400
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Yeah I never felt any dread from the opening scene, except maybe from John Debney's excellent score. How was there dread?
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Old September 29 2010, 12:45 AM   #401
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

There was a little dread. It just never paid off, so it doesn't resonate on subsequent viewings.
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Old September 29 2010, 01:25 AM   #402
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Wasn't Vanko watching the expo on TV while working on his whips? They could have switched over to him then.
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Old September 29 2010, 02:07 AM   #403
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

The alternate opening is SO much better than the theatrical cut. Unlike the generic shot of a fully-suited Iron Man jumping out of a plane, this scene is based in character. And the character stuff is what really made the first Iron Man movie successful.

Between this and the Edward Norton Incredible Hulk, Marvel is really developing a track record of leaving some of their most interesting footage on the cutting room floor. Let's hope that this isn't a trend that continues into Captain America, Thor and The Avengers.
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Old September 29 2010, 02:27 AM   #404
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Gaith wrote: View Post
'm not saying that the scene is out of character for them, I'm just saying that it would have been the wrong way to kick off their IM2 reconciliation arc. And Favs happens to agree.
Well, I didn't agree with a lot of Favreau's decisions with Iron Man 2 seeing as how I thought it was a lackluster sequel, so that doesn't really instill me with a lot of confidence. Honestly, I just don't see how this would have deterred their arc in the second film at all- if anything, their dynamic as shown in that alternate opening is full of friction, so I don't quite see your point here.

Exactly. We saw them spar all throughout the first movie, so we don't need to see it so soon again.
Yet Tony and Pepper have that type of argumentative dynamic all throughout the sequel. That is the cornerstone of their relationship.

What, with a random "Six Months Earlier" flashback? No way.
Samurai8472 wrote: View Post
Wasn't Vanko watching the expo on TV while working on his whips? They could have switched over to him then.
I think the above explanation would be very fitting. In fact, since as The Borgified Corpse so expertly mentions, the Ivan Vanko/dying father routine never really went anywhere, I would have just cut that tidbit entirely and then just cut to Vanko working on his whips while watching the Stark Expo on TV.

And besides, the jokey alternate scene we're describing would have killed the dread created by the Ivan opening dead, whereas Tony's drop in the movie eases us into his more flippant world.
As others have said, the Ivan Vanko story arc really doesn't go anywhere in the film since the Vanko character really does nothing throughout the majority of the sequel. So that dread was kind of just filler and useless anyway. I would have taken a character-oriented opener- one that does payoff since we do get some development on Tony and Pepper's relationship in the film- over an opening that never pays off in the end, but that's just me.
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Old September 29 2010, 03:26 AM   #405
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Re: Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Some of these suggestions for improvements remind me of something that Joss Whedon once said back when he used to work primarily as a script doctor. Occasionally, he would find a project so broken, he would level with them, "You don't need me. You need to not make this." I kinda feel that way about Iron Man 2. So much of it doesn't come together. I don't think it's something that could be fixed with different editing choices. I think we need to go back in time and force Marvel Studios into a page 1 rewrite, so that maybe we could get something with some decently competant villains.
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