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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 20 2012, 04:05 PM   #316
Satyrquaze
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

WarpCore wrote: View Post
Right. I was pointing out a minor discontinuity in TNG that as far as I know no one throws up much of a fuss over. Simple first season one-liner in both cases. I guess more people notice or care because it was a Captain talking.
Fair enough, but its worth pointing out that I'm not entirely sure the writers had a firm grasp on the pseudo-science behind the warp engine until season 3 of TNG.

Hell, the writers hadn't even decided if the Klingon Empire was part of the Federation or not until season 2.

For Voyager there is no such excuse.
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Old January 20 2012, 04:57 PM   #317
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
Right. The point is they were in the Delta Quadrant. To use your example: There wasn't a friendly town in which they could trade for bullets (or gasoline...).
This isn't Mad Max, we already know from all the other Trek shows just how loaded with advanced sentient life the Trekverse is. There were inhabited worlds and friendly advanced civilizations they ran by all the time.

Even in Farscape they mentioned that there were lots of Commerce planets they went to (off-screen), and they were wanted criminals being hunted by the major powers of the area! No reason why Voyager would have such a harder time of it especially when the tough guys on the block WEREN'T chasing them as criminals.
No, they ran by neutral advanced civilizations all the time.

Well, theres the matter that in Farscape most of the people involved knew where to find such Commerce planets. That isn't the case in Voyager. Also the impression I got was that by and large, most Delta quadrant races were behind Starfleet in the technology level scale. Many didn't even have warp drive. And furthermore, we're not talking about trading for blankets here. We're talking anti-matter. It would probably be treated as a strickly controled substance in the best of situations- particularly in the amounts they're talking about.
They aren't trading at civilization-scale units, its trade for units that would power a small scout ship. Bit of difference in asking a Commerce planet for huge amounts usually traded in Trade Networks and smaller amounts meant to power one ship for a while.

And they did have someone who knew where to go: Neelix.
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Old January 20 2012, 06:49 PM   #318
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

It's sloppy writing.

They should have mentioned it in an episode instead of leaving fans to fanwank it.
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Old January 20 2012, 07:33 PM   #319
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

A fair few of the critisms levelled at VOY could have been prevented by simply mentioning it an episode. The reason why some of the points aren't levelled at other shows is that the audiance is fully aware that they can just put in at a starbase and be replensihed with things like Torpedeos, put in at a dock to get battle damage repaired. Or have parts shipped to them by another Federation ship.
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Old January 20 2012, 08:03 PM   #320
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Apparently Anwar enjoys that Voyager left giant gaping holes in its logic, it allows him to fanwank constantly which he seems to enjoy.
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Old January 20 2012, 08:42 PM   #321
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
It's sloppy writing.

They should have mentioned it in an episode instead of leaving fans to fanwank it.
If they mentioned it, it would be as bad to the audience as the "Holodecks have their own power source" explanation was. If commerce planets, the exact process of making more torpedoes and how self-repair was done on the ship were all mentioned then the complaints would just be that there ARE Commerce Planets, that they can make more torpedoes and that they can fix damage.
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Old January 20 2012, 09:01 PM   #322
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

^I disagree, if you have a line saying you have no way to replace the torpedeos when they are gone. Then you need to explain or at least mention in passing that you've manged to replinish them. The exact mechanics not so much so. If that line wasn't mentioned then there is no issue. As it could have been carrying 300 warheads.

As soon as you draw attention to something you need to show/mention you have addressed/resolved the problem.

As for Battle damage, but there was a freidly spacedock in between each instance of the ship getting damage and looking brand new the following weak. Possibly but it begins to stretch credability if it occurs too often.
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Old January 20 2012, 09:12 PM   #323
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Anwar wrote: View Post
If they mentioned it, it would be as bad to the audience as the "Holodecks have their own power source" explanation was. If commerce planets, the exact process of making more torpedoes and how self-repair was done on the ship were all mentioned then the complaints would just be that there ARE Commerce Planets, that they can make more torpedoes and that they can fix damage.
Quite the contrary, I've found that SF fans in general and Star Trek fans in particular will readily accept anything that comes down as "Word of God/from TPTB". The only 'Word of God' in cases about the leaps in the logic in the writing for Voyager forces you to make is that "We made mistakes" or "We couldhave done better in these instances". And I tend accept the writers at their word here.

It's when fans are left in a vacuum of information (as they often are with the writing of Voyager) is when we (as fans) run into trouble. We form our personal answers to the questions that these voids of information raise with bits of our own personalities. And this is why we as the rabid fans we are take attacks upon 'our' answers as personal affronts, which we respond to with all the fervor of a religious fanantic.
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Old January 20 2012, 10:24 PM   #324
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

In response to suggestions of ways Voyager could have been done differently, Anwar has literally been repeating almost verbatim for years some variation of the phrase "the audience would have hated that too" to all manner of subjects. His mythical Audience™ is a single-minded malevolent entity that attacks every possible quantum reality where Voyager exists and can't be reasoned with. It's probably best to just ignore him when he starts talking about it.
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Old January 21 2012, 12:05 AM   #325
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
It's sloppy writing.

They should have mentioned it in an episode instead of leaving fans to fanwank it.
You really want to be spoonfed every factoid so that there's nothing left to speculate about?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
It's when fans are left in a vacuum of information (as they often are with the writing of Voyager) is when we (as fans) run into trouble. We form our personal answers to the questions that these voids of information raise with bits of our own personalities.
But that's the fun bit!
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Old January 21 2012, 12:12 AM   #326
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

I agree, fans should not have to have everything explained in 1-2-3 fashion.
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Old January 21 2012, 12:54 AM   #327
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
You really want to be spoonfed every factoid so that there's nothing left to speculate about?
No, but the occassional mention of exactly how the ship is in brand new condition every damned episode despite being stranded thousands of miles from Federation space MIGHT have been nice.
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Old January 21 2012, 12:56 AM   #328
Therin of Andor
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
You really want to be spoonfed every factoid so that there's nothing left to speculate about?
No, but the occassional mention of exactly how the ship is in brand new condition every damned episode despite being stranded thousands of miles from Federation space MIGHT have been nice.
Quoting fail, You_Will_Fail.
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Old January 21 2012, 12:59 AM   #329
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
You really want to be spoonfed every factoid so that there's nothing left to speculate about?
Well that really depends on the nature of the factoid, doesn't it? Leaving the origin of the Borg, for example, to speculation was probably for the best; while something like the complete lack of backstory or motivation for the shadowy future guy in Enterprise is just sloppiness.

I think the original intentions of the writers have something to do with it as well. It's one thing to deliberately insert mysterious elements to your story, and quite another to be too lazy to continue something you started.

I'd say Voyager's unexplained lavish resources despite all the obvious references in the earlier seasons of how conservative they would need to be easily falls into the latter category.
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Old January 21 2012, 03:23 AM   #330
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
^I disagree, if you have a line saying you have no way to replace the torpedeos when they are gone. Then you need to explain or at least mention in passing that you've manged to replinish them. The exact mechanics not so much so. If that line wasn't mentioned then there is no issue. As it could have been carrying 300 warheads.
The only solution to this problem the audience would've approved of would've been them never ever being able to find torpedo replacements and never ever use any type of torpedo weapon again for the remainder of the series from that point on.

As soon as you draw attention to something you need to show/mention you have addressed/resolved the problem.
They tried that with the holodeck plot point, and the reaction they got from THAT was enough to convince them that if they had gone with "We found enough torpedo supplies to last us another 200 warheads" they'd just get disapproval for that as well.

As for Battle damage, but there was a freidly spacedock in between each instance of the ship getting damage and looking brand new the following weak. Possibly but it begins to stretch credability if it occurs too often.
We saw the logical end of the "Voyager gets damaged" type of plot in YoH. That's where that plot point inevitably leads to.

And if they just had them spend episodes smartly avoiding combat and avoiding damage so they don't need to get repairs, then it's all just "These writers are pansies, they don't have the guts to have the ship get damaged and would rather show us that the Captain is smart enough to avoid those situations."
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