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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 6 2012, 08:51 PM   #241
Sandoval
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Is there actually something of value you'd like to add because nothing in this thread has anything to do with your personal opinions of other posters.
You're exhausting. If someone said the sky was blue, you'd argue otherwise until the end of time. Please just ignore me in future and don't quote or respond to me.
Since you appear to be the one who has a problem with exodus then surely the onus is on you to ignore him, not the other way around.

That's what the ignore button is there for after all.
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Old January 6 2012, 08:53 PM   #242
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

All jokes aside, scribbling out a number on a production office wall and writing a smaller one beside it each time a script refers to someone dying doesn't appear to be a particularly taxing challenge for the production staff.
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Old January 6 2012, 11:15 PM   #243
MacLeod
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
^well it might not effect the story(episode), but for the show as a whole it might be considered by some not caring about the small details.
That's my point, if it is a small detail why should it matter?
If the over all story is good, what difference does it make how many are on the ship? How far do we have to go before a nitpick becomes anal?

Yes sometimes for the sake of dramatic purposes, things are overlooked. But if we want to discuss crew for a moment. Each and every loss has an impact on characters. A particular skill set might be lost, a friend/lover is gone etc... You have to work extra to cover shifts that they did etc.. Thefre is a whole range of things that could have been explored with diminishing crew numbers
I'd agree if most of the crew deaths didn't happen in reset episodes. The crew that did die, like Hogan, Durst, Suder, Carey, etc all had "moments" of emotional reflection or reaction to their deaths. Voyager's losses in crew were minimal if you don't count resets and alternate time lines where most of the deaths happened.
Let's say you are building a house. You have the key things to sort out.

Solid Foundations
What will it be made out of Brick, Wood or Straw etc..
How many Bedrooms/lounges etc..

But what about the small little finishing touches, what taps do you have in your kitchen/bathroom. Do you have door handles or Door knobs
And so.

Sure you can overlook the small details, but without the finishing touches you might have an ok house instead of the house of your dreams.

Lets examine the EMH for example.

"Message in a Bottle" B-Plot if we lose the EMH during this excerise to contact Starfleet will be without an EMH.

"Living Witness", A-Plot we all of a sudden have a back-up EMH.

So we go from not having one to having one, yes I know a few years passed so they could have created one. But without being told about even an attempt to create one it looks like they simply don't care.

I've seen stronger elements of continuity in Law & Order (another episodic show) than the writers of VOY showed most of the time.
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Old January 7 2012, 10:31 AM   #244
exodus
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Santaval wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Is there actually something of value you'd like to add because nothing in this thread has anything to do with your personal opinions of other posters.
You're exhausting. If someone said the sky was blue, you'd argue otherwise until the end of time. Please just ignore me in future and don't quote or respond to me.
Since you appear to be the one who has a problem with exodus then surely the onus is on you to ignore him, not the other way around.

That's what the ignore button is there for after all.
Thank you!
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Old January 8 2012, 05:16 AM   #245
exodus
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
^well it might not effect the story(episode), but for the show as a whole it might be considered by some not caring about the small details.
That's my point, if it is a small detail why should it matter?
If the over all story is good, what difference does it make how many are on the ship? How far do we have to go before a nitpick becomes anal?

Yes sometimes for the sake of dramatic purposes, things are overlooked. But if we want to discuss crew for a moment. Each and every loss has an impact on characters. A particular skill set might be lost, a friend/lover is gone etc... You have to work extra to cover shifts that they did etc.. Thefre is a whole range of things that could have been explored with diminishing crew numbers
I'd agree if most of the crew deaths didn't happen in reset episodes. The crew that did die, like Hogan, Durst, Suder, Carey, etc all had "moments" of emotional reflection or reaction to their deaths. Voyager's losses in crew were minimal if you don't count resets and alternate time lines where most of the deaths happened.
Let's say you are building a house. You have the key things to sort out.

Solid Foundations
What will it be made out of Brick, Wood or Straw etc..
How many Bedrooms/lounges etc..

But what about the small little finishing touches, what taps do you have in your kitchen/bathroom. Do you have door handles or Door knobs
And so.

Sure you can overlook the small details, but without the finishing touches you might have an ok house instead of the house of your dreams.

Lets examine the EMH for example.

"Message in a Bottle" B-Plot if we lose the EMH during this excerise to contact Starfleet will be without an EMH.

"Living Witness", A-Plot we all of a sudden have a back-up EMH.

So we go from not having one to having one, yes I know a few years passed so they could have created one. But without being told about even an attempt to create one it looks like they simply don't care.

I've seen stronger elements of continuity in Law & Order (another episodic show) than the writers of VOY showed most of the time.
Voyager is no HEROES.
That show had no continuity at all.
How many decades did the lack of continuity of how the Klingons look last for?
I still find Voyager's continuity flaws easy to dismiss in comparison.
Honestly, I've never found much continuity in most of the sci-fi I watched growing up. So I guess I've been conditioned to accept it and not make a big deal of it. Honestly, I never knew people kept track of that stuff until I joined this board. I've always felt, If the story itself was good then I could llok past the continuity issues.
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Old January 9 2012, 12:27 AM   #246
MacLeod
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

I guess part of it maybe how you view it.

If you view it like a novel, with "Caretaker" as the first chapter and "Endgame" as the last chapter. With each episode forming a chapter of the novel. Then continuity issues become more apperant.

You don't mind the fact that the writers couldn't care less about keeping track of basic things like crew numbers, compliment of torpedeo's etc.. thats fine. I've watched a lot of Sci-Fi shows and whilst VOY did shine from time to time. I had seen the stories done better in other shows a including other Trek shows. VOY generally played it more towards the safe side. They rarely tried to be bold and daring, even if they failed I would have at least given them credit for trying.

On a side note it is widely believed and possible true that Sci-Fi fans are more continuity conscious than other genres. If one of the writers starts to slate the show then you have problems. What ever you think about BSG (04) it did for the most part keep track of things like survivor count etc... Even within Trek it appeared as if the writers took note of some of the issues with VOY when they did the Xindi arc in ENT. Yes you can argue that was because of the serialised nature rather than episodic nature.

VOY had a great opportunity not only develop it's core characters but a cast of secondary characters. Instead we seemed to have a new character almost every time the script called for a secondary character. Yes I know we had characters like Vorrik, Carey and Suder.
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Old January 9 2012, 02:53 AM   #247
exodus
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
I guess part of it maybe how you view it.

If you view it like a novel, with "Caretaker" as the first chapter and "Endgame" as the last chapter. With each episode forming a chapter of the novel. Then continuity issues become more apperant.

You don't mind the fact that the writers couldn't care less about keeping track of basic things like crew numbers, compliment of torpedeo's etc.. thats fine. I've watched a lot of Sci-Fi shows and whilst VOY did shine from time to time. I had seen the stories done better in other shows a including other Trek shows. VOY generally played it more towards the safe side. They rarely tried to be bold and daring, even if they failed I would have at least given them credit for trying.

On a side note it is widely believed and possible true that Sci-Fi fans are more continuity conscious than other genres. If one of the writers starts to slate the show then you have problems. What ever you think about BSG (04) it did for the most part keep track of things like survivor count etc... Even within Trek it appeared as if the writers took note of some of the issues with VOY when they did the Xindi arc in ENT. Yes you can argue that was because of the serialised nature rather than episodic nature.

VOY had a great opportunity not only develop it's core characters but a cast of secondary characters. Instead we seemed to have a new character almost every time the script called for a secondary character. Yes I know we had characters like Vorrik, Carey and Suder.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like my POV is fine too you.
It sounds more like you're trying to convince me to take issue with something you have any issue with and I don't.....and I'm not sure why?
If it was something political, I'd understand the outrage and agree but it's not. It's just entertainment and I still found the show entertaining. So for me, it served it's purpose.
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Old January 9 2012, 04:39 AM   #248
spot_loves_data
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
On a side note it is widely believed and possible true that Sci-Fi fans are more continuity conscious than other genres.
I'll buy that. The nature of the material is so fantastical to begin with that if a work isn't internally consistent, the audience's suspension of disbelief is shot. I cut VOY a little slack because, as you mentioned, it wasn't serialized. Episodes can be skipped and the framework is still largely the same - there's a shuttle craft in working order, there's a large enough crew compliment, the ship is in decent shape, etc. It's a little dull, but if DS9 were more like that, I would have watched it when it was on the air. As it was, there was too much backstory I'd missed. VOY did take too many liberties, though.

Anwar wrote: View Post
In VOY they made a big deal over how they needed everyone in the crew... meaning if they DID keep a "Crew Counter" and started killing people the show would be screwed up because they were violating their "We need everyone" plot point...
That's what bugged me about Good Shepherd. It was nice to have a different point of view, but these misfit crew members contradicted the "every person is essential" message they'd delivered before.
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Old January 10 2012, 12:13 AM   #249
Guy Gardener
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

OH I love this this continuity error.

It's so fucking hilarious!

"Oh my. No. Oh deeaar (beat) [THE HORROR!] these crewmen have never been on an away mission!"

Think about it.

Thinking?

They all went camping together in Basics.
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Old January 10 2012, 06:46 AM   #250
spot_loves_data
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

But does getting your ass tossed off the ship count as an away mission? I guess so. Well, more so than the make-work field trip Janeway had planned.
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Old January 10 2012, 12:16 PM   #251
You_Will_Fail
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

"Good Shepherd" showed a Janeway who didn't know her way around her own ship and clearly didn't give a crap about anyone outside of the circle of main characters.
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Old January 10 2012, 12:43 PM   #252
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Showed it?

6 years of showing it.

Good Shepherd proved it.
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Old January 10 2012, 03:56 PM   #253
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
"Good Shepherd" showed a Janeway who didn't know her way around her own ship and clearly didn't give a crap about anyone outside of the circle of main characters.
Eh, even Kirk had moments of that.
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Old January 10 2012, 04:24 PM   #254
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Screwing the same Yeomen twice is hardly the same.
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Old January 10 2012, 06:41 PM   #255
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

Anwar wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
"Good Shepherd" showed a Janeway who didn't know her way around her own ship and clearly didn't give a crap about anyone outside of the circle of main characters.
Eh, even Kirk had moments of that.
Kirk wasn't stuck on a ship for Seven years with the exact same 140 people.
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