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Old June 11 2013, 08:46 PM   #736
JES
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Location: Ocoee, Florida
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

^But it does stand reasonable to say that she might have been equipped with them at some point, though if this was the case, she would lose them during her refit.
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Old June 11 2013, 08:49 PM   #737
JES
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Albertese wrote: View Post
JES wrote: View Post
...
Interestingly enough, "In A Mirror Darkly" might have been the first on-screen canon depiction of a Constitution class having aft torpedo tubes, but this notion to my knowledge dates back to Franz Joseph's schematic for the Constitution class. It depicts one or a pair (can't quite remember ATM, but I think it was two) mounted in the back of the lower bridge module, around the same area where the astronomical observation telescope is often shown.


...
Nope. As a matter of fact, all of the FJ materials place the torpedo launchers at the front end of the lower bridge module. The aft end with the telescope was always just the telescope.

--Alex
Then I'm going to have to go the Cygnus and double check, because I'm certain that there is a set of schematics that shows the torpedo tubes being shown there. It was probably someone else who did the schematics that depicts this torpedo placement.
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Old June 11 2013, 09:06 PM   #738
Albertese
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

^^^ Could be that someone else drew them that way. But, all I know about are the FJ TM and the Booklet of General Plans that FJ actually did... and I double checked them both before I posted.

--Alex
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Old June 11 2013, 09:16 PM   #739
JES
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Correction: it was Kennedy Shipyards that shows the Constitution class as having one torpedo tube in that area, which to my knowledge isn't licensed by Paramount, and so is probably wouldn't be considered canon.

There is a similar case for Strategic Designs.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:00 PM   #740
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@JES - On this version, this Enterprise will just have 6 forward photon torpedo tubes in the lower primary hull. She didn't have a problem hitting Nomad that was almost behind her with a torpedo. As far as FJ's version of the ship, Havoc92 has an excellent build out going in his thread (and last seen had the torpedo tubes in the top bulge.)
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Old August 8 2013, 03:21 AM   #741
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Sidetrack - the TOS-R's Enterprise in "The Paradise Syndrome" showed a deflector beam coming from not the center of the big dish but to the side of it (or from the upper section.) Kinda surprised the way it was depicted.

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Old August 8 2013, 12:25 PM   #742
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I've always seen the blocks as part of the deflector system, but it's odd that TOS-R (who are fairly TNG-centric for the most part) should choose this option. And why only 1 block?

Definitely odd. Nice repro, though!
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Old August 8 2013, 02:39 PM   #743
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Thanks Mytran. It's tedious, but I'll eventually be happy with the exterior model enough to go back to the interiors. I knew when I eye-balled the TOS-R deflector effect that it looked "off" and when I checked it out it just confirmed that it wasn't from the center of the dish. My guess is that they misaligned something during their scene setup and didn't have time to go back in and fix it. If it was deliberate, I don't mind as I like the "blocks" being part of the deflector system
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Old August 8 2013, 03:18 PM   #744
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I should mention that Andrew Probert considered these blocks to be "space energy field attraction sensors" on the TMP Enterprise (and according to the official TMP Blueprints).

As part of the deflector system protecting the entire ship, I'd expect one block to be actually on the forward bow of the engineering hull, not at the bottom.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; August 8 2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: full length term
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Old August 9 2013, 01:12 AM   #745
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I tend to think of the deflectors as full spherical protection so the 3 blocks would just be possible emitter points that also did other things. If I were to do that FX scene over I'd instead have the deflector shields flare up and then concentrate on a single point to project forward onto the asteroid.
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Old August 9 2013, 11:36 AM   #746
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Ahem...you mean like the Death Star's "Lazer Eye"?

Bob
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Old August 9 2013, 01:45 PM   #747
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Or an energy beam hit on the shields played back in reverse
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Old August 9 2013, 07:27 PM   #748
Wingsley
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

JES wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I'm also an advocate for treating the series and the movies as separate entities in general, especially concerning interpretations of history and especially for that reason I do not treat ENT as canon.

However, ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" is set in the mirror universe where a lot of things are different and this is the one exception where I can imagine it co-existing with TOS and leading up to events in "Mirror, Mirror".

Except for the Defiant's aft torpedos I can't see any features of NCC-1764 depicted here that would contradict TOS canon (only some irregularities in the corridor design) and therefore have been grateful to "discover" new spaces in the engineering hull never seen before.

Just to consider such inspiration doesn't automatically imply one accepts the rest of ENT as canon. ENT merely added new visuals to a classic TOS design, nothing more but also nothing less.

As for my project it comes down to a simple question: Would Matt Jefferies have approved the ENT design additions to his Enterprise?

Bob
Interestingly enough, "In A Mirror Darkly" might have been the first on-screen canon depiction of a Constitution class having aft torpedo tubes, but this notion to my knowledge dates back to Franz Joseph's schematic for the Constitution class. It depicts one or a pair (can't quite remember ATM, but I think it was two) mounted in the back of the lower bridge module, around the same area where the astronomical observation telescope is often shown.

I've always thought that the torpedo tubes are mounted above or below the telescope, or the aft section of the bridge module can have it's equipment interchanged at a starbase, depending on the mission (or perhaps the whims of the commanding officer).

Given that the Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser was the intended primary warship at the time of her heyday, I think it makes plenty of sense that she would have a considerable arsenal at her disposal, enough to keep her covered from multiple vectors and angles. That should include the aft.
Sorry to muddy the waters on this, but the notion of aft weapons was mentioned (never shown) in "Balance of Terror".
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Old August 9 2013, 10:44 PM   #749
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Wingsley wrote: View Post
Sorry to muddy the waters on this, but the notion of aft weapons was mentioned (never shown) in "Balance of Terror".
If you consider "midship phasers" to be the aft phasers, yes.

However, both in "Arena" and "Friday's Child" we hear intercom reports regarding the "aft phaser", so apparently there could be a difference between midship and aft phasers.

I believe midship phasers refer to the "tallywhacker" of the ventral saucer dome.

Bob
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Old August 10 2013, 04:41 AM   #750
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Wingsley - yes, thanks for the reference.

My thinking for the weapons arrangement for this project is to have the phaser emitter placements resemble the TMP Enterprise's:

Forward phasers = 2 emitters forward dorsal saucer + 2 emitters forward ventral saucer
Port phasers = 2 emitters port dorsal saucer + 2 emitters port ventral saucer
Starboard phasers = 2 emitters starboard dorsal saucer + 2 emitters starboard ventral saucer
Midship phasers = 4 emitters ventral engineering hull
Aft phasers = 2 emitters above engineering shuttlebay

Midship weapons could've included both the ventral phasers and aft phasers, IMO.

Photon torpedoes = 6 tubes forward ventral saucer.

I currently discount the possibility of aft tubes because they would've been used in "The Changeling".

It's possible that these weapons could have referred to phasers and torpedoes but the dialogue seems to suggest "weapons" to equate to "phaser weapons"-only.
STILES: Energise. Acknowledge.
ANGELA: Phaser control acknowledging. All weapons energising to full.
ROBERT: Happy wedding day, almost.
ANGELA: You won't get off my hook this easily. I'm going to marry you, Mister, battle or phaser weapons notwithstanding.
ROBERT: Well, meanwhile, temporarily at least, I am still your superior officer. So get with it, Mister.
TEC 1: Port weapons show ready.
TEC 2: Starboard and midship weapons show ready.
ANGELA: Acknowledge. All weapons batteries ready.
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