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Old July 26 2011, 06:03 PM   #406
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

When in WNMHGB does the turbolift/viewscreen ratio shift position? The set layout seems unchanged to every other episode (four and half consoles on one side, two and a half on the other).
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Old July 26 2011, 07:01 PM   #407
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran- normally a whole section is directly behind the captain,but in wnmhgb you can see that it is split with the turbolift. This is how you can tell that the lift has been shifted. Also, in the episode we never see all the stations, particularly the one nearest the main viewer on Spock's side so it might not have the same ratio...
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Old July 26 2011, 08:56 PM   #408
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

True we never see all the consoles, that was a bit of a stretch on my part

I don't have the video of WNMHGB to hand, so I checked out Trekcore and it seems to show the odd setup you mentioned:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnail...album=3&page=3
(top right)

Weird! I'd never noticed that. Sharp eyes!

Last edited by Mytran; July 26 2011 at 09:13 PM.
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Old July 26 2011, 09:09 PM   #409
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Hi Mytran,

Look on the same trekcore album, page 4 top left - there should be a whole panel behind him not the partial and the turbolift. Another spot to look is page 7 bottom right where you are looking at the bridge from the side. In wnmhgb the whole panel is flat from the rail opening while in other episodes thats where two whole panels join up.
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Old July 26 2011, 09:13 PM   #410
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Yep, noticed my mistake after I made my original post. Whoops!
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Old July 26 2011, 09:20 PM   #411
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

no worries

I guess Kirk had a minor refit after this episode
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Old July 26 2011, 10:51 PM   #412
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Plug & Play bridge modules! After all, there were very definite changes made to the bridge after WNMHGB.

And who's idea was it to put a label on the captain's chair? Did it really need further identification?
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Old July 27 2011, 12:05 AM   #413
Cary L. Brown
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
no worries

I guess Kirk had a minor refit after this episode
I've always assumed that Kirk inherited the Enteprise which was largely unchanged from how it was under Pike's command (and which had a crew of about 200).

The encounter with the barrier just trashed the ship, and as a result, while the ship was able to LIMP back to Federation space using scavenged components from a mining facility, the damage was very severe and the ship had to undergo a full refitting.

I've always said that the "WNMHGB" ship was still the "all military" version of the ship, a heavy cruiser mainly dedicated to security operations, not long-range exploration. There were likely quite a few of these, not merely twelve.

But twelve were refit and relaunched as "explorers." The advent of replicator technology (food slots, quartermaster department requirements, spare parts manufacturing, etc) freed up a large amount of what was previously cargo space aboard this ship, and they basically put a full science vessel's complement of personnel and facilities into the freed up space. The Enterprise, and twelve other heavy cruisers, became the first "exploratory cruisers" and were simultaneously launched on a widely-publicized "five year exploratory mission" with great fanfare. When the Enterprise was the only ship to return, fully intact, from that mission, Starfleet elected to make the Enterprise insignia that of the entire Starfleet. (That, and I'm sure they were getting sick of coming up with custom insignia for every single ship they launched!)

So, there was likely at least a year between WNMHGB and The Corbomite Manuever. While the outside of the ship was mostly unchanged, the internal configuration was altered almost as dramatically as it was during the eighteen months prior to ST-TMP.
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Old July 27 2011, 02:24 AM   #414
Albertese
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
(That, and I'm sure they were getting sick of coming up with custom insignia for every single ship they launched!)
I suggest that the insignia were assigned per sub-fleet of the over all star fleet. This would explain why there are other ships with the arrowhead (those clearly non-Enterprise crew on the starbase in "Court Martial") but also other ships with their own thing (Antares, Exeter, Constellation, et al)
Defiant could go either way depending if you want to go with "The Tholian Web" or "In a Mirror Darkly."

But let's not derail the thread.

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Old July 27 2011, 05:30 PM   #415
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

CLB - I like that interpretation of the extended refit a lot, and it certainly explains away a great many of the visual changes between WNMHGB and TCB.
The more militaristic mission also ties into Kirk's original monologue:

Enterprise Log: Captain James Kirk commanding. We are leaving that vast cloud of stars and planets which we call our galaxy. Behind us: Earth, Mars, Venus, even our sun are specks of dust. A question: what is out there in the black void beyond? Until now our mission has been that of space law regulation, contact with Earth colonies and investigation of alien life. But now, a new task; a probe out into where no man has gone before.
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Old July 27 2011, 07:49 PM   #416
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Whoa, Kirk's going extra galactic!
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Old July 27 2011, 08:40 PM   #417
Albertese
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Mytran, is that from an early script? I don't recall having heard that bit before. But's been a while since I watched the episode, I might be mis-remembering.

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Old July 27 2011, 09:07 PM   #418
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

It's from the unaired 2nd pilot, before it got re-edited into standard series format (including the more familiar voiceover). Although probably not canon, I think the changed monologue sets up the action very well in a "first mission" sort of way.

You can find clips of the original segments on Youtube I think. There are several other corridor shots that didn't make it into the broadcast WNMHGB, although bizarrely one shot ended up in the Man Trap!
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Old July 28 2011, 12:35 AM   #419
Cary L. Brown
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Mytran,

Yeah, I've seen the "unaltered" version of "WNMHGB" as well, and I definitely "absorbed" that monologue.

I saw it independently, but isn't that also part of the BD package now?
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Old July 28 2011, 02:46 AM   #420
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I like all the theories put forth

My current operating theory:

1. The Enterprise looked like the diagram seen in "The Enterprise Incident" before or during the early part of Pike's command.

2. Enterprise receives a slight redesign and refit, losing the lower beveled saucer edge and the warp nacelles are moved closer together. She may have also been enlarged as well.

3. When Pike turned over command to Kirk, the Enterprise underwent a minor refit and upgraded systems including the turbolift location on the bridge. Crew may or may not have been bumped up to 400 at this point as Mitchell says there are at least 100 women on board. The ship may have also been *specially outfitted* for going out of the galaxy for a period of time. The ship might also instead of being bumped up to 400, might have been an even ratio of men and women for the extra-galactic mission.

4. When returning from the galactic barrier, Starfleet shelved the extra-galactic mission and refitted the Enterprise for normal exploration within the galaxy. The turbolift location in the bridge is once again moved.

5. After the events of "Balance of Terror", Kirk has photon torpedo launchers added to the Enterprise as a secondary weapon.

6. At some point, the Enterprise's energizers are upgraded to handle dilithium crystals.

7. The computer system gets an upgrade during general repair and maintenace at Cygnet-14. After "Tomorrow is Yesterday", Enterprise puts in for a 3 week overhaul at a Starbase to undo the changes.

8. Between Season 1 and 2, the Enterprise receives an engineering upgrade, moving the energizers to the newly expanded engine room.

9. The engine room and engines are upgraded over S2 and S3 (and presumably the remainder of her 5 year mission)

10. Enterprise completes her 5 year mission and undergoes a significant redesign and refit for duty over 2.5 years in "The Motion Picture". Overall size is enlarged with majority of the ship built new from the ground up.

11. Enterprise is refit and modified by "The Wrath of Khan". Direct access to the dilithium/energizer is added as well as an extra ladder in the engine room. Other cosmetic changes are done to the bridge.

12. Enterprise is destroyed in "The Search for Spock"

13. Enterprise-A is commissioned under Kirk's command in "The Voyage Home". Different bridge design and turbolift locations.

14. Enterprise-A engine room is modified/upgraded by "The Undiscovered Country". The TNG-like warp shaft replaces the old shaft and a transparent booth/control area is added. The turbolifts are once again moved on the bridge.

15. Enterprise-A retired after Kirk takes a very very long side trip via some "star to the right" before returning to Earth
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