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Old June 19 2010, 12:45 AM   #166
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran - Yep those markings on the E-A.

Disclaimer - I don't completely think that the internals/flight deck we see in the E-A from "The Final Frontier" make sense and I'm very willing to discount it as an alcohol + bean dream rather than an actual adventure

As to the red rectangle on the E, here are some more views. I am using Sinclair's exterior schematics for placement of the hatches.

I also added the hallway seen in front of the Engine Room and added a few feet more between the turbolift and the forward hull to give room for the long range sensor gear and structure. Interestingly and unintentionally, the amount of M/AM reactor space is about the same that ended up being available on the refit-E...

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Old June 19 2010, 05:01 AM   #167
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Petri Bloomqvist, in a picture for one of the "Ships of the Line" calendars, depicted the rectangle under the fantail as a hatch for two or three workbees (a notion I rather like and subsequently pinched ). As for the rest, they make a lot of sense, to me at least, as access hatches to the antimatter generators and storage pods, with the circular yellow one indicating the intermix chamber, specifically, the ejection port. The remastered version of "Operation: Annihilate!" shows it opening up like bomb bay doors, to allow orbital insertion of those ultraviolet satellites, so I've modified the internal setup slightly to allow for a couple of crewman in environmental suits booting those things out the hatch, not unlike how crewmen on AC-130's pitch flares out the side hatch during night operations.
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Old June 19 2010, 07:33 AM   #168
Mytran
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Location: North Wales
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Thanks blssdwlf, I'm quite happy being wrong here. Sinclair's and Casimiro's plans are near identical in this area, it's just my placment that was off!
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Old June 19 2010, 01:43 PM   #169
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Petri Bloomqvist, in a picture for one of the "Ships of the Line" calendars, depicted the rectangle under the fantail as a hatch for two or three workbees (a notion I rather like and subsequently pinched ). As for the rest, they make a lot of sense, to me at least, as access hatches to the antimatter generators and storage pods, with the circular yellow one indicating the intermix chamber, specifically, the ejection port. The remastered version of "Operation: Annihilate!" shows it opening up like bomb bay doors, to allow orbital insertion of those ultraviolet satellites, so I've modified the internal setup slightly to allow for a couple of crewman in environmental suits booting those things out the hatch, not unlike how crewmen on AC-130's pitch flares out the side hatch during night operations.
@CRA - I might have seen the fantail hatch idea from one of the calendars - thanks for the reference.

I thought a better choice for "Operation: Annihilate" instead of the circular bottom hatch would have been using the launch rails on the flight deck. There would've been room for racks of those satellites in a staging area on the flight deck.

@Mytran - No worries It is pretty neat to see how many pieces of the puzzle do fit on the ship
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Old June 19 2010, 09:45 PM   #170
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Quick update:

Did a check on the new shorter in length (and height) hangar deck and everything still fits Even the elevator opening lines up (woohoo )

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Old June 22 2010, 09:07 PM   #171
Gagarin
Commander
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Peter - sorry to back track, but I'm curious about why you ended up with the '2 consoles and a ladder' in two places in the engine room you designed? It's an arrangement I've not seen others do, and not one I ever really thought about. I know lots of your work there focused on EMM, so was there a step I missed?
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Old June 23 2010, 03:40 AM   #172
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Gagarin - The 2nd smaller set of consoles and a ladder stems from "The Day of the Dove" and where everyone is looking towards. I'm not 100% sure I'll keep it, but there aren't any more engineering room episodes after that seem to contradict it

You can see some screenshots of that episode in this post:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=152
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Old June 23 2010, 06:08 AM   #173
Gagarin
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
@Gagarin - The 2nd smaller set of consoles and a ladder stems from "The Day of the Dove" and where everyone is looking towards. I'm not 100% sure I'll keep it, but there aren't any more engineering room episodes after that seem to contradict it

You can see some screenshots of that episode in this post:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=152
OOhh... I most have watched that episode 40 times and never paid attention about which direction they were working.

Hah. I probably just thought "they should look the other way!" subconsiouslelslslry.
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Old June 23 2010, 06:16 AM   #174
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

^^My thoughts too. Of course now that I'm trying to build that room out these little things come to light (d'oh!) I've watched it a few times, and even though it was a really strange choice of the director, there are no camera shots at that corner to say the small console+ladder couldn't exist either. So that gives me a bit of flexibility in putting that there if I wanted to come close to that episode
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Old July 13 2010, 09:27 PM   #175
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I got sidetracked over-thinking what the engine internals would look like between the engine room and the hangar complex. I had thought it would be clever to look to the refit-Enterprise and see if some of that internal structure could be leveraged...

So after trying in vain to match up the cargo deck scene in TMP I found on Andrew Probert's website a reference plate he used for the matte painting and was able to do a match on that. Whew!

What I'm currently thinking is that like the refit-Enterprise, the TOS Enterprise's M/AM reactor is fairly small and the energy is amplified as it makes its way through to the warp nacelles and back to the main energizer which is further amped by the dilithium crystals.

Anyway, will return back to the TOS engine room after this detour

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Old July 14 2010, 11:04 PM   #176
Mytran
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Location: North Wales
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Wow, great stuff! Shame it seems to prove without doubt that those sidewise corridors have no room to go anywhere!
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Old July 15 2010, 05:48 PM   #177
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran - Well, worse than going nowhere, I don't think the completed matte painting as filmed wouldn't fit the accepted 305m ship ...

When I overlay the film version to match up I ended up:
  • moving the 3rd floor balcony bracing aft a little
  • moved the turbolift shaft aft about 10' (still doesn't line up with the exterior port
  • moved side cargo walls outward
  • lowered the height of the shuttle elevator section
  • lengthened the shuttle elevator section
  • created the bracing for the flight deck which is substantially wider than the cargo section
There were some elements I couldn't match up mostly because the painted on elements are slightly exaggerated in perspective or when viewed at the other angle don't match up. I've tried to align them as best I could

I think I'll try rescaling the exterior using the exterior port position and the flight deck height to get a revised "Thermian" scale of the refit.

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Old July 15 2010, 06:25 PM   #178
Mytran
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Location: North Wales
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I've always felt that the on-screen TMP Enterprise was larger than the published lengths. The massive cargo bay, huge recreation deck and long corridors outside Engineering all strongly suggest it. A larger ship was also make the torpedo room(s) from TWOK fit better.

I'm very interested in what you find!
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Old July 16 2010, 08:49 AM   #179
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I'm currently guesstimating ~1164' / 355m.

I missed it before but it became apparent when I tried to line up the external docking port with the internal location. I had mistakenly thought that the 3rd floor balcony lined up with the flight deck. But if you look on the film and director's cut model, the external port is higher (like a couple of feet) than the flight deck. When I drop the flight deck 2', the flight deck in the matte painting now line up better (height-wise) as well.

I'll spend some time modeling the travel pod, workbees and shuttle to see how that fits into what's been filmed for scaling...
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Old July 20 2010, 03:48 AM   #180
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran - I think for now I'm going to stick with 355m for the TMP Enterprise.

I used the orthographic views of the Director's Cut Enterprise from Doug Drexler's site (wish I had a high res version ) to do some lining up and comparisons.

There is a scene in TMP where the travel pod docks to the Enterprise and interestingly, that close up is kinda flawed. The windows next to the docking port are much closer than they are in the model. And there must be some kind of magnifying effect going on with the head at the window as he doesn't look he would fit through the door

Anyway, at 305m, a 6' person sorta fits through the docking port while scaling up to 355m a 6' person nicely fits through. Plus, other internal sets fit better as well.

The other thing I noticed was that at 305m, it seems that the TMP Enterprise's primary hull was thinner than then TOS Enterprise which seemed really odd.

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