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Old June 9 2010, 03:24 PM   #136
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran - thanks for the references to "I, Mudd" and "Is There In...". I think you're right in that the ladder on the right doesn't seem to have a direct route into the engine room. For now I'll just assume that the right ladder goes down and you could either go left to the exit by the left ladder or right and further into other parts of engineering

I might also extend the right ladder further down as suggested, but perhaps into a room where there is more machinery (that would be under the dilithium energizer piece).
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Old June 10 2010, 02:09 AM   #137
wildstar
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Trying to configure everything seen onscreen in that area sure is a problem.
In "Elaan..", it was like this:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...royius_148.JPG
Yet in "That Which...", the engineer walks into that same area and it is this:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thum...lbum=92&page=7
(much easier to see in the actual episode)

Also, regarding that ladder from EMM, in "Mirror Mirror", McCoy walks to a yellow door that opens to reveal the ladder in an alcove, and Scotty ascends it to EMM.

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...-Trekpulse.jpg

The way in which he walks to the door would mean that that corridor would exist exactly where the 2 big machines are in Engineering. So you have to cheat a bit to make that fit.

I ended up with this type of setup while working on the 1701 blueprints.


Certainly not definitive, but may help you figure out how it'll all fit in your 3D creations.
Looking forward to seeing how it all works out. Have you decided where in the ship you figure that S2 Engineering will reside?
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Old June 10 2010, 02:41 AM   #138
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Wildstar - thanks for the suggestions and references. That would be a bummer that there is a scene in "Mirror, Mirror" that has them climbing up to the EMM But, it isn't a total loss as Mytran's suggestion could work where that corridor to the EMM ladder entrance could be the deck below

As far as reconciling the layout, I'm taking the approach that the engine room is getting altered from short refits and/or Scotty's constant tinkering with his engine room. It's kinda like the constant bridge and engine room changing between the first 6 movies Eventually I'll post up a progression of changes that room went underwent over the 3 seasons.

I think once I'm done with the engine room, I'll fix up my shuttlebay complex and then see where to put the engine room. Lotsa small steps
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Old June 10 2010, 06:08 PM   #139
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Minor update about the EMM as seen in "Mirror, Mirror". So far, "Mirror, Mirror" is the only episode that I know of that shows someone climbing up to the EMM. Obviously, that ladder position would put the outside hallway (and also seen in "By Any Other Name") in an awkward position as it would run through the engine room. From a story POV, "I, Mudd" would suggest (since we only saw him climb down the ladder) that the hallway should be on the same level as the engine room entrance based on Norman's route.

I'm going to take advantage of a quirk in "Mirror, Mirror" though to make it all fit. The way the scene is presented, McCoy knocks out the guard and both Scotty and McCoy drag him into the ladder room to the side. Next there is a noticeable camera cut which presumably goes back to the same ladder but from a slightly different angle.

Edit: But if you watch what Scotty and McCoy do prior to the camera cut, they go much further inside (to the right of the door) presumably to hide the body.

I'm going to "creatively" say that there are two ladders (as in my previous render) and that guard's body was dragged back to the ladder that is furthest away from the hallway and the camera cut showed them at the 2nd ladder

Last edited by blssdwlf; June 10 2010 at 06:12 PM. Reason: extra info
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Old June 10 2010, 10:35 PM   #140
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
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Location: North Wales
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

That's excellent thinking blssdwlf and I may have to borrow it! While we're on the subject of Mirror Mirror, it is this episode that led me to think the EMM was lower to the ground, perhaps only 5 feet off it! When Scott first steps off the ladder, McCoy is just seen stepping forward onto it - as in, he was on the floor of the soundstage and just walked forward before ascending. At this point (before he starts climbing) his neck is nearly level with the floor of the EMM. It's hard to see because Scott is in the way, but how does it look to you?

wildstar wrote: View Post
Trying to configure everything seen onscreen in that area sure is a problem.
In "Elaan..", it was like this: http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...royius_148.JPG
Yet in "That Which...", the engineer walks into that same area and it is this: http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thum...lbum=92&page=7
(much easier to see in the actual episode)http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...-Trekpulse.jpg
Ah, you mean the Antimatter bypass room?

SCOTT: Watkins, check the bypass valve on the matter/antimatter reaction chamber. Make sure it's not overheating.
WATKINS: But, Mister Scott, the board shows correct.
SCOTT: I didn't ask you to check the board, lad.
WATKINS: Yes, sir.
The way Scott is acting makes me think that this is brand new room and he is eager to get some use out of it. It must have been fitted following the events of Day of the Dove since that was the last time we saw Engineering in it's previous configuration (production order). Actually I'm glad that something finally got done with that space. For far too long that alcove had sat there, with a completely pointless door! But I digress.


wildstar wrote: View Post

It's a good diagram, but weren't the big power units in S2/3 roated 90 degrees?
I do like all that extra engineering space at the bottom left though! Might that be the dilithium room from Alternative Factor?
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Old June 11 2010, 08:00 AM   #141
wildstar
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
That's excellent thinking blssdwlf and I may have to borrow it! While we're on the subject of Mirror Mirror, it is this episode that led me to think the EMM was lower to the ground, perhaps only 5 feet off it! When Scott first steps off the ladder, McCoy is just seen stepping forward onto it - as in, he was on the floor of the soundstage and just walked forward before ascending. At this point (before he starts climbing) his neck is nearly level with the floor of the EMM. It's hard to see because Scott is in the way, but how does it look to you?

Nice catch.

wildstar wrote: View Post
Trying to configure everything seen onscreen in that area sure is a problem.
In "Elaan..", it was like this: http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...royius_148.JPG
Yet in "That Which...", the engineer walks into that same area and it is this: http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thum...lbum=92&page=7
(much easier to see in the actual episode)http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...-Trekpulse.jpg
Ah, you mean the Antimatter bypass room?

Yep, that would be it. In my layout, as seen in "Elaan..", the desk with the monitor on it made it seem like it's the Chief Engineer's office (I think the FJ plans said they were the Chief Engineer's office as well). Then the larger L-shaped room is the diagnostic workshop, purely a fabrication, not ever seen onscreen. Since this area is the only other way out of engineering, they must have some sort of workshop somewhere where they wouldn't have to leave engineering to get to.

It's a good diagram, but weren't the big power units in S2/3 roated 90 degrees?
I do like all that extra engineering space at the bottom left though! Might that be the dilithium room from Alternative Factor?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I think they were. They were shown both ways, so just chose one.
The dilithium room is on the other side, in similar spot to the reactor room in TMP (in these plans, engineering is in the same area as in TMP). Possibly it became the reactor room in TMP during the refit was the idea.
The layout of it is odd. I had to watch the scenes from Alternative Factor a lot to understand the layout.

Seen here:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thum...bum=53&page=10
and
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thum...bum=53&page=16

you can see that Kirk rushes into an anteroom of sorts (where the short machines are against the wall) from a corridor. If you look close in the episode you can see from the 2 camera angles in and outside the room, that the wall seems to have an angle to it, with more short machines:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...Factor_176.JPG
So when Lazarus knocks out the redshirt, he hides in that room's corner enough to not be seen by the girl, so I put in a small door to another room that he could have snuck into.


Again, just my interpretation. Not trying to hijack this thread, but just to add my own experience when trying to map out the same stuff blssdwlf is doing.
Nice to see another Lightwaver btw.

Last edited by wildstar; June 11 2010 at 08:01 AM. Reason: changed link
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Old June 11 2010, 04:47 PM   #142
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran - I'm reading 6'5" off the ground (which seems to match the height of the balcony on the other side). So far fairly consistent and I'm able camera match across several episodes where the EMM is featured (whew!)

@Wildstar - no worries. Thanks for the very helpful information you've given I've been using LW for several years, originally to help with some web projects and now just as a hobby So good to see another Lightwaver too.

As for my current thinking...

The two power units I'm assuming to be portable to account for their constant shuffling around.

That alcove that we see in "Elaan of Troyius" I figure was modified and enclosed with the antimatter bypass as seen in "That Which Survives". It probably was enclosed earlier since Memory Alpha indicates "Day of the Dove" to be be produced before "That Which Survives".

And then (a head scratcher) in "Day of the Dove" the mysterious entity is seen floating in the balcony area where the red ladder is. But the entire time it is there, all the characters are looking over by the wall above the antimatter bypass room! I just might fit another balcony on that side just to see how it would look...

Right now I'm trying to figure out where the Elaan and Scotty were when looking at what I assume is part of the deflector shield system and hoping it doesn't end up under the EMM
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Old June 11 2010, 11:58 PM   #143
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

This is by no means definite, but just wanted to post up a WIP to better illustrate my previous post

You can also see the corridor from the 1st ladder leading to the back ladder going to the EMM.

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Old June 12 2010, 06:56 AM   #144
wildstar
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

That second tall stair with the partial console is throwing me for a loop.

Regarding the EMM, opposite the ladderway, the opening corridor is closer to the red screen than camera, just so you know.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...-Trekpulse.jpg

And to go along with the concept of all of the small upgrades, in an episode that slips my mind, the curved console from the "second bridge/auxillary control" was used in EMM, then in Mirror Mirror and Zetar a simpler console was used.
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Old June 12 2010, 05:41 PM   #145
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

wildstar wrote: View Post
Regarding the EMM, opposite the ladderway, the opening corridor is closer to the red screen than camera, just so you know.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...-Trekpulse.jpg
It looks that way, but that vertical machine (with the black panel in the middle) obscures what is between it and the wall with the red screen. Here is another angle from "Lights of Zetar" that shows more space...



wildstar wrote: View Post
And to go along with the concept of all of the small upgrades, in an episode that slips my mind, the curved console from the "second bridge/auxillary control" was used in EMM, then in Mirror Mirror and Zetar a simpler console was used.
Thanks wildstar, I'll keep a lookout for this scene
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Old June 12 2010, 07:01 PM   #146
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Centrelea, Nova Scotia
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Of course it's a different ship in MM. Very similar in most ways, even down to McCoy's acid stain but it could be different.
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Old June 12 2010, 09:44 PM   #147
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

^^ True enough kkozoriz1. I found some dialogue stating as much. After comparing the two scenes ("Lights of Z" and "Mirror, Mirror") it looks like the folks just slid that vertical machine up against the wall of the red screen. I also noticed a mistake on my part where the wall actually has a slope to it next to the screen. Will post up an updated on in a bit
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Old June 13 2010, 09:02 PM   #148
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
@Mytran - I'm reading 6'5" off the ground (which seems to match the height of the balcony on the other side). So far fairly consistent and I'm able camera match across several episodes where the EMM is featured (whew!)
Thanks - this height issue has bugged me for years, it's fantastic to have some be able to build a 3D replica of the set and try these things out!

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
And then (a head scratcher) in "Day of the Dove" the mysterious entity is seen floating in the balcony area where the red ladder is. But the entire time it is there, all the characters are looking over by the wall above the antimatter bypass room! I just might fit another balcony on that side just to see how it would look...
Again a very curious choice on behalf of the director! I'm asssuming it was done due to the lack of a 4th wall on the side of the EMM. However, judging by the angle that Kirk et al are looking, I thought it could imply a platform even higher off the ground than you've placed it - if that would help the layout at all?

You are rocketting through these remaining episodes, blssdwlf. I had hoped to produce definitive articles on set layouts for all episodes, but at this rate you'll be done long before I start the first one! (especially as I haven't started converting my notes yet - real life getting in the way and all that )
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Old June 14 2010, 05:16 AM   #149
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Hmmm. lotsa nifty room layouts to pinch...
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Old June 14 2010, 07:14 AM   #150
wildstar
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Hmmm. lotsa nifty room layouts to pinch...
Feel free to do your own research in the episodes yourself as well. Our work could be erroneous.
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