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Old January 9 2013, 04:40 PM   #676
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I figure there would be Matter and Antimatter feeds going up to the nacelle tanks, a power feed to operate the nacelle, control circuits and maybe a Matter and Antimatter overflow/return feed coming back down to the engineering tanks.
...Plus some way for people to access the nacelle, as in "One of Our Planets"?

Or is TAS outside the scope of this project? On the conceptual level, I mean. The "sets" from the animations may significantly differ from the TOS ones in dimensions, but that could be attributed to the extra artistic license inherent in the medium, even when keeping the actual features such as a holosimulation room, a number of engineering details, and the shirtsleeves access to the nacelles. Or attributing some of those to refitting between the shows... But I'd think nacelle access would be an original feature nevertheless.

Seeing how the red outlines mesh with the, well, mesh, is going to be exciting. Too bad that red is the color the least systematically compatible with the idea of hatches: we have individual curved red lines under the saucer, an outline that gets broken by the pylon on the nacelle underside, and finally a fairly inconvenient reproduction of the stern undercut red square in the E-A wherein the line again gets broken by surface detail.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 9 2013, 11:25 PM   #677
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Timo - Actually I do have an access point for people to crawl up the pylon. I didn't illustrate it as well but I marked it as "Jefferies Tube" or the first circular opening into the pylon.

The TAS info is outside of the scope though If I ever get to it, it will be Anime Trek!

You're right about the odd nature of the red lines. Something to think about...
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Old January 10 2013, 01:33 PM   #678
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

No prob with ignoring the animations altogether. But just to clarify, the TAS relevance to the nacelle access thing is sort of twofold.

First, the TAS episode provides our only verification that Kirk's ship, in any of its incarnations, would have access of this sort at all. This is something we could just as well ignore because nacelle access just plain makes sense, at least with certain limitations; we don't need TAS to tell us this.

Second, TAS actually shows us how it happens, and what we see is visually consistent with live action Trek to a degree. That is, the nacelle interior designs first visually depicted in ENT "In a Mirror, Darkly" were based on the TAS visuals such as these:

http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...missing112.jpg
http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...missing119.jpg

But this brings about the one thing where all of this might directly affect your design. Namely, the access in TAS is depicted as having been by two men and a largish "forcefield box" with handlebars but without wheels or an obvious hover functionality. We see an ENT-style catwalk inside the nacelle, but we also appear to be indirectly witnessing a pylon access route that allows the men to walk upright, or to ride a lift. Whether such a route should be featured in your model or not is the real question...

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 10 2013, 02:32 PM   #679
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Timo - I'd have to see this "forcefield box" to understand what you're describing. Do you have a screenshot? (That doesn't mean it is in scope though, as it wasn't in the live action TOS episodes.)
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Old January 10 2013, 05:04 PM   #680
Redfern
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Here's the containment box, simply a transparent cube with a thin frame along the edges and "handles" mounted upon opposite sides.

http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...missing109.jpg

The item floating within is a sliver of anti-matter "villi" precision cut from the interior of a gaseous lifeform that eats planets (kinda' like the movie interpretation of Galactus).

The episode in question is "One Of Our Planets Is Missing".

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old January 10 2013, 05:16 PM   #681
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Yup, quite peripheral to this thread, but it's an object that could be used as a dimensional reference if one wanted.

Here's the box next to our heroes, just before they shove it in the "jumpstarter" thingamabob inside what they call the antimatter nacelle.

http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...missing116.jpg

Combining the TAS graphics with Drexler's ENT art, it would appear the box is being shoved into a compartment in the forwardmost part of the nacelle - thus possibly supporting the idea that there's a power-generating reactor there.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 10 2013, 06:37 PM   #682
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Redfern - thanks!

@Timo - that box and two crewmen will fit through the "Jefferies Tube" opening I marked in my previous rendering to go up the pylon.
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Old January 10 2013, 07:14 PM   #683
Redfern
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Yes, good ol' TrekCore..."for all your Trek related screen capture needs."

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old January 10 2013, 07:32 PM   #684
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

It's a long way to crawl, is all...

Since this is an exceptionally long shaft or corridor by any standards, it probably deserves some means of assisted motion quite unique to it. A dedicated lift type, a zero-gee conveyor, two slides both going "down" but in opposite directions...?

There's also the issue of the "portholes" or other lighted fixtures along the length of the pylon to solve. Perhaps people spending two hours climbing the ladder do need to catch their breath on platforms offering a nice view?

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 10 2013, 10:34 PM   #685
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Timo wrote: View Post
Second, TAS actually shows us how it happens, and what we see is visually consistent with live action Trek to a degree. That is, the nacelle interior designs first visually depicted in ENT "In a Mirror, Darkly" were based on the TAS visuals such as these:

http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...missing112.jpg
http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...missing119.jpg
You write about it as if it were a fact that (one of) the corridors shown in "In A Mirror, Darkly" were supposed to be inside one of the warp nacelles.

Watching the second part of this episode several times I was unable to find such hints or is that merely a speculation of yours?

The only hint we get regarding location is on or near "Deck 22", sugesting it to be somewhere in the engineering hull (according to FJ or the Gorn's deck plans) but not in the nacelles.

Bob
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Old January 10 2013, 11:59 PM   #686
Albertese
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Timo wrote: View Post
It's a long way to crawl, is all...

...

There's also the issue of the "portholes" or other lighted fixtures along the length of the pylon to solve. Perhaps people spending two hours climbing the ladder do need to catch their breath on platforms offering a nice view?

Timo Saloniemi
Were those ever lit? Seems to me that they were always dark, probably just black painted rectangles on the model. Maybe on the TOS-r CG ship, I never paid close attention to that particular detail...

I had always interpreted those to be some sort of sensor emplacements or other hardware useful for the warp engines... not windows at all.

--Alex
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Old January 11 2013, 12:49 AM   #687
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I don't think the portholes were lit in the original FX for the warp nacelle pylons, either.

I haven't thought much more about the structure of the pylon other than the types of piping and people that would go through it and the dorsal midsection that was ripped open in "The Doomsday Machine" on the Constellation...
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Old January 11 2013, 10:10 AM   #688
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

You write about it as if it were a fact that (one of) the corridors shown in "In A Mirror, Darkly" were supposed to be inside one of the warp nacelles.
Actually, what I mean is that these angled tubes, never seen as part of any sets in the ENT episode, were nevertheless used by Drexler as an element in the forward halves of the nacelles and seen in the schematic the Mirror Archer and Tucker closely examine. (In terms of such detail, this artwork precedes ENT, of course - Drexler first did it for the Captain's Chair CD-ROM, apparently).

http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com..._drexler_2.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...arkly2_259.jpg

Were those ever lit?
I don't think so. Then again, unlit features of that shape speckle the outer hull elsewhere - right next to lit features of that shape. Therein lies the problem, the possibility that these might be portholes Where No Man Has Any Business Going, or that they might look like portholes for mysterious reason X.

It's nuances, but it carries consequences, so I'm quite curious to see what Peter can come up with here. Is all.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 11 2013, 10:33 AM   #689
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

In order to finish up the flight deck, I will need to finish the TCOTK Observation room. So, onto the details like the Comm Panel. Once that is done, I can re-use it for other locations



@Timo - the details of the nacelle pylon will come later since at this point I don't need to know what's in it as I work my way into the ship. I do have a rough idea and it will have a section to resemble the innards as seen on the Constellation and from another angle. I think based on the piping I have going up, it's inline with what is seen.

As to manual entry vs a powered lift, I'll decide at a later date
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Old January 11 2013, 04:59 PM   #690
DanGovier
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Location: Somerset, UK
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

blssdwlf - I just wanted to say your work on this has truly been an inspiration to me. I'm loving the cutaway renderings you have done, like this one:

http://www.fightingstarships.info/fi...002-output.png

It was actually your example which inspired me to do similar in Minecraft:

http://danielgovier.com/minecraft/re...er_systems.jpg

Your attention to detail is scary... I'm loving it!
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