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Old April 14 2010, 12:39 AM   #16
The Boy Who Cried Worf
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

So I take it there will be no complaining when Carrot Top is cast in the Paul Robeson story?
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Old April 14 2010, 12:52 AM   #17
CaptainCanada
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Thor as a doctor,
That's not a retcon, that's a plot development.
alien Thors like the hammer was a Green Lantern ring, etc.).
You don't like Beta Ray Bill? (and that's also not a retcon; that's a story development perfectly in keeping with the ground rules established for who can lift Thor's hammer)
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
No, I believe Romeo did kill Paris - at least I remember "I am Fortune's fool!" was a big moment in the film and that comes after he knocks off Paris doesn't it?
He says that after killing Tybalt.
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Old April 14 2010, 07:57 AM   #18
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Dark Journey wrote: View Post
So I take it there will be no complaining when Carrot Top is cast in the Paul Robeson story?
Robeson is a little more real than Heimdall.
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Old April 14 2010, 10:02 AM   #19
Stone_Cold_Sisko
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Stringer Bell in Thor!!!!! Nice!
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Old April 14 2010, 12:21 PM   #20
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

I just want to know who he's going to get to play me.
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Old April 14 2010, 02:22 PM   #21
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Works for me. Whether a "nordic god" should look like a northern European at all depends, of course, on whether you start with the premise that they created humans or that humans created them.
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Old April 14 2010, 06:18 PM   #22
Myasishchev
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Thor as a doctor,
That's not a retcon, that's a plot development.
alien Thors like the hammer was a Green Lantern ring, etc.).
You don't like Beta Ray Bill? (and that's also not a retcon; that's a story development perfectly in keeping with the ground rules established for who can lift Thor's hammer)
"Retcon" used in a very liberal sense, as retconned from the Norse myth. But I see your point, and yeah, I like Beta Ray Bill. It's just kinda, I dunno, off the point.

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
No, I believe Romeo did kill Paris - at least I remember "I am Fortune's fool!" was a big moment in the film and that comes after he knocks off Paris doesn't it?
He says that after killing Tybalt.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's bogus. To me, the death of the Prince's cousins is a hugely important part of the story. "All are punished" means more when he's speaking from a personal place, and not just in his role as the ruler of Verona. Hell, the line doesn't even make sense unless you're told earlier that Paris and Mercutio are the Prince's family:

Prince wrote:
Where be these enemies? Capulet! Montague!
See, what a scourge is laid upon your hate,
That heaven finds means to kill your joys with love!
And I, for winking at your discords too,
Have lost a brace of kinsmen. All are punish'd.
It's been a long time since I've seen the flick, but I know this part's got to be in there...
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Old April 14 2010, 09:22 PM   #23
Dusty Ayres
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post

Yeah, exactly. That's why I didn't mind it.

But let's take another modern Shakespearean production, where race didn't matter (but family was paramount)--Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet. It would have been a problem if the Prince and Mercutio weren't the same race, or at least plausibly related, and it sucked that Paris was this lily white, Paul Rudd-looking dork. Now, I'll grant that Luhrman didn't care that the three were all related, but it sort of bothered me. Paris should've been a black guy, and they should have been related, because the innocent family's body count from the idiocy of the feud should be the same as the Capulets and Montagues (2 for each).

Thinking on it, does Romeo actually even kill Paris in Luhrman's version? I remember something important being left out, and it might've been that.
No, I believe Romeo did kill Paris - at least I remember "I am Fortune's fool!" was a big moment in the film and that comes after he knocks off Paris doesn't it?

What is left out is any mention of family relations between the Prince, Paris and Mercutio. Not that that really matters in a Shakespeare production where it has become commonplace not to worry about matching related characters up racially in many productions.

Well, in full frankness, even though I've generally liked the character and his series(es), the Marvel Thor mythology nevertheless kinda bugs me with its retcons of the source material (Loki, adopted son of Odin? huh?, Thor as a blond, Thor as a doctor, alien Thors like the hammer was a Green Lantern ring, etc.). So I guess it probably is immaterial, given the other issues, if Heimdall's black.
Exactly. Their Thor is so far removed from anything actually Norse how could it possibly matter that not everyone looks Nordic? Though, I do find the blatant tokenism of a lot of this sort of casting to be fairly obnoxious. Then again, considering how difficult it is for anyone of color to pull a role, I'm sure they're happy just to be working.
I will be seeing the movie, but more because I want to see how Thor will be brought to the screen. I wonder how most of the northern Europeans will be taking this news?
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Old April 14 2010, 09:36 PM   #24
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

How did the Greeks react to Hercules and Xena? It's not like many people actually believe in these deities anymore, so who cares what liberties are taken?
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Old April 14 2010, 09:52 PM   #25
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Christopher wrote: View Post
so who cares what liberties are taken?
It can simply come down to a fondness for the narrative. I don't like the idea of some comic book writers cleaning up the Norse mythos and doing their usual slapdash routine, and I didn't like using Greek mythology as a vehicle for Hollywood cheesecake; though of course neither are exactly new.

Though as far as casting goes there has been a suspicious and of course unremarkjed on tendency for Greek gods to be cast as northern European whites; which is never really seen as a big deal.
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Old April 14 2010, 11:11 PM   #26
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Kegg wrote: View Post
Though as far as casting goes there has been a suspicious and of course unremarkjed on tendency for Greek gods to be cast as northern European whites; which is never really seen as a big deal.
To most people's minds, Europeans are Europeans, all white to one degree or another (and, of course, there's centuries of art depicting them that way).
Kegg wrote: View Post
It can simply come down to a fondness for the narrative. I don't like the idea of some comic book writers cleaning up the Norse mythos and doing their usual slapdash routine, and I didn't like using Greek mythology as a vehicle for Hollywood cheesecake; though of course neither are exactly new.
Many of these stories have made quite innovative use of world mythology, and these mythologies were hardly watertight in their continuity anyway (Greek mythology puts the DCU to shame in terms of differing versions and retcons).
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Old April 14 2010, 11:24 PM   #27
darkwing_duck1
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.
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Old April 14 2010, 11:28 PM   #28
Kegg
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Kegg wrote: View Post
Though as far as casting goes there has been a suspicious and of course unremarkjed on tendency for Greek gods to be cast as northern European whites; which is never really seen as a big deal.
To most people's minds, Europeans are Europeans, all white to one degree or another (and, of course, there's centuries of art depicting them that way).
Oh, come now. That there are differences between Europeans of many Meditterreanean countries including Greece and northern European countries isn't something all that remarkable; but casting has often favoured northern European actors (Star Trek's Apollo, for example).

Many of these stories have made quite innovative use of world mythology, and these mythologies were hardly watertight in their continuity anyway (Greek mythology puts the DCU to shame in terms of differing versions and retcons).
It's not a matter of continuity and more one of tone, which is why I said I don't like. It's an appropriation and transmogrification of the mythos into a cheeseburger; a pop culture commodity. Inevitable, perhaps, but not something I'm keen on.
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Old April 14 2010, 11:52 PM   #29
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Kegg wrote: View Post
Oh, come now. That there are differences between Europeans of many Meditterreanean countries including Greece and northern European countries isn't something all that remarkable; but casting has often favoured northern European actors (Star Trek's Apollo, for example).
Well, of course, particularly in productions by northern Europeans (just like Britons are usually called on to play French characters in English-language versions of The Three Musketeers). It's not nearly the same thing in terms of difference; I don't particularly mind this guy being cast, personally, though I'd have gone a different way.
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Old April 14 2010, 11:59 PM   #30
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
"Diversity" casting is the most egregious sort of stunt casting. Any producer or director who would cast on that basis is more concerned with "making a statement" than producing a good movie.

Still interested in the film, but this definitely counts against it.
I have a lot more confidence in Kenneth Branagh's abilities as a film director than I do in your opinions of his casting choices.

Thor is going to be awesome.
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