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Old April 21 2010, 10:17 AM   #181
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

I look forward to your support when they start recasting minority characters with caucasian actors in the future. I bet Bradley Cooper would make an awesome Malcolm X. Oh, and I'd wager that Alec Baldwin would be amazing as the prophet Muhammad.

(Or is it only not-inappropriate when it's caucasians from a ridiculously caucasian culture [the Norse] that are being "reimagined?")
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Old April 21 2010, 10:19 AM   #182
Kegg
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
So he has a point, but you're going to try to ignore it on a technicality...right...
No, he's got a point against the comic book, which feeds into my argument that his issue should be with that in principle.

1) Re-read what he said. He said he DID have an issue with changing Thor's parentage, but (as he put it to me)that he enjoyed the generally respectful tone of the comic overall.
Alright. So if the film is generally respectful, he's fine with Heimdall being black?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Gaia, as presented in the comic, is NOT "Greek", she is the living embodiment of Earth. If anythiing, she is a pan-pantheonic figure.
So, basically.

The comic book changes the race of Gaia to Northern European? Surely that's also pretty bad, appropriating someone from another pantehon, whitening her up and sticking her in the narrative.
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Old April 21 2010, 10:26 AM   #183
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Checkmate wrote: View Post
I look forward to your support when they start recasting minority characters with caucasian actors in the future. I bet Bradley Cooper would make an awesome Malcolm X. Oh, and I'd wager that Alec Baldwin would be amazing as the prophet Muhammad.

(Or is it only not-inappropriate when it's caucasians from a ridiculously caucasian culture [the Norse] that are being "reimagined?")
It's not okay to cast black characters with white actors because being black is an "intrinsic" part of their character whereas white characters are generic and can be cast with any old actor. Apparently.
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Old April 21 2010, 12:29 PM   #184
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Checkmate wrote: View Post
It's very much the same as casting a Caucasian, a Native American, an Asian, or an Eskimo as Luke Cage.
Actually, despite earlier arguments that Cage is rooted in New York race politics, I think the character could quite easily work as Latino or Caucasian provided it stays true to the other part of Cage's story - that of an empowered former gangbanger trying to help clean up the ghetto. Nothing about gang culture mandates Cage be African-American... in fact, the notion that a gang member must be black is stereotypically in the extreme.
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Old April 21 2010, 01:44 PM   #185
JoeZhang
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

matthunter wrote: View Post
Checkmate wrote: View Post
It's very much the same as casting a Caucasian, a Native American, an Asian, or an Eskimo as Luke Cage.
Actually, despite earlier arguments that Cage is rooted in New York race politics, I think the character could quite easily work as Latino or Caucasian provided it stays true to the other part of Cage's story - that of an empowered former gangbanger trying to help clean up the ghetto. Nothing about gang culture mandates Cage be African-American... in fact, the notion that a gang member must be black is stereotypically in the extreme.
What about Blacula?
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Old April 21 2010, 02:50 PM   #186
Nomad V
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Hermiod wrote: View Post
Checkmate wrote: View Post
I look forward to your support when they start recasting minority characters with caucasian actors in the future. I bet Bradley Cooper would make an awesome Malcolm X. Oh, and I'd wager that Alec Baldwin would be amazing as the prophet Muhammad.

(Or is it only not-inappropriate when it's caucasians from a ridiculously caucasian culture [the Norse] that are being "reimagined?")
It's not okay to cast black characters with white actors because being black is an "intrinsic" part of their character whereas white characters are generic and can be cast with any old actor. Apparently.
I for one do not consider myself generic by any measure.
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Old April 21 2010, 05:37 PM   #187
matthunter
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
What about Blacula?
Loved him in Quantum Leap, the less said about Enterprise the better.
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Old April 21 2010, 06:33 PM   #188
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

matthunter wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
What about Blacula?
Loved him in Quantum Leap, the less said about Enterprise the better.
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Old April 21 2010, 08:56 PM   #189
Geoff Peterson
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Checkmate wrote: View Post
I look forward to your support when they start recasting minority characters with caucasian actors in the future. I bet Bradley Cooper would make an awesome Malcolm X. Oh, and I'd wager that Alec Baldwin would be amazing as the prophet Muhammad.

(Or is it only not-inappropriate when it's caucasians from a ridiculously caucasian culture [the Norse] that are being "reimagined?")
Last time I checked Malcolm X wasnt a "character" but an actual person.
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Old April 21 2010, 09:37 PM   #190
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

So?
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Old April 21 2010, 10:15 PM   #191
Geoff Peterson
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Checkmate wrote: View Post
So?
Fiction vs real.

Heimdall from Thor comics, fictional character. The background of the actor playing him is less imporant than an actor playing an actual person like Malcom X.
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Old April 21 2010, 10:37 PM   #192
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

And that changes anything, how exactly? Keeping in mind the other characters mentioned. And nevermind that historical figures are often altered and changed in fiction, too. Or have you never seen a show like Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure or any of the various Star Trek episodes that featured one. Say... Mark Twain.
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Old April 21 2010, 11:37 PM   #193
Geoff Peterson
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Checkmate wrote: View Post
And that changes anything, how exactly? Keeping in mind the other characters mentioned. And nevermind that historical figures are often altered and changed in fiction, too. Or have you never seen a show like Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure or any of the various Star Trek episodes that featured one. Say... Mark Twain.
I don't recall them taking too many liberties in Star Trek or B&TEA when casting parts based on real people. Writing them, that can be a different story.

Real people should be treated different than fictional ones when it comes to casting. Why bring up one when talking about the other?
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Old April 22 2010, 03:56 AM   #194
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Tom Arnold as The Falcon in Captain America: The First Avenger!

You heard it here first!
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Old April 22 2010, 06:17 AM   #195
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Re: How Thor breaks down racial barriers in Asgard

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
^But Nick Fury or whomever is still just a fictional character. He's a figment of the imagination. So he can be reinvented any time you reboot the series, like when you film a new movie version.

Nothing is set in stone.

If I want to write a story in which Fury is a giant, orange-skinned woman and I can talk Marvel into authorizing it . . . voila, he's a giant, orange-skinned woman!
616 Nick Fury would be very problematic as a black character. Unless we want to ignore his World War II history and the fact that SHIELD was formed in the 1950s, which would suck because that stuff is awesome and Fury's like one of only like three major remaining links to the Marvel Golden Age (although I can't remember if he was actually there). Alternatively, we could just ignore the realities of race relations at the time, but that would suck even harder because that would be insulting.

Ultimate Nick Fury didn't possess the same backstory, perhaps to his deteriment, but it made the character's race pretty unimportant, even by implication. Although, apropos of nothing, I've become somewhat retroactively annoyed with Sam Jackson, and that's bled onto Ultimate Fury a bit.

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And I'll just bet you're one of the ST fans who flipped when Tim Russ was cast as a -- gasp -- black Vulcan!
Open ended discussion question: is it important, when casting aliens with actors from obviously different population groups, to consider the evolutionary mechanics of how such analogues would have arisen on said alien planet? I.e., "Given that Vulcans have had planetary transportation, no racial strife, and a unified government for more than a millennium, how come identifiable ethnicities continue to persist despite all the hot pon farr action?", which can also be phrased "Do Vulcans, like humans, tend to be racist in their mate choice?", or alternatively "Voyager writers would not have considered or even understood any of this crap because it approaches actual science, would they?" which is more of a statement really.

Also, is it annoyingly safe that they cast a black woman as Tuvok's wife (holodeck masturbation fantasy wife, but whatever), or of no consequence, or a good thing, because afaik there had been no black female Vulcans prior to that?
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Last edited by Myasishchev; April 22 2010 at 06:39 AM.
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