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Old April 11 2010, 05:26 PM   #16
Science Officer
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Hi MadMan,

You do need a torpedo launcher - but try to keep it really low down on the neck. Looking at the side profile, I'd say roughly follow that line between the light grey of the neck and the dark grey of the secondary hull. I wouldn't bother with putting an airlock in there either. I know that's trespassing on engineering a bit, but since you're redesigning ....

I think you're come up with an interesting combination of TOS/TMP for the nacelles. It works very well. I've seen too many ships where TOS nacelles have been put on a TMP ship - the results have always looked wrong.

On the phasers, I like the style but I think you will need the balls. The problem here is practicality - you can only shoot straight ahead. Although I've never seen the ball-style phasers in any detail, I'd imagine them to be split into 3 slices with the central slice able to move veritcally and the entire assembly can swivel horizontally. Could something like that be tried with your existing housing?

That aside, you're making good progress. I only wish I could develop something that quickly. Looking forward to the finished ship.

Cheers,
S.O.
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Old April 11 2010, 07:07 PM   #17
erifah
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Science Officer wrote: View Post
... On the phasers, I like the style but I think you will need the balls.
He'll need the balls? He SEEMS like a pretty brave fellow...
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Old April 11 2010, 07:36 PM   #18
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Why do the phasers need to pivot?

Going off of TOS, there's nothing to suggest that the phasers pivoted.

Considering the extreme range of combat in TOS/TMP, it's not unreasonable to have fixed weapons emplacements.

Besides, ommitting those mechanisms leaves more room for the captain's Lovenasium.
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Old April 11 2010, 08:41 PM   #19
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Why do the phasers need to pivot?

Going off of TOS, there's nothing to suggest that the phasers pivoted.

Considering the extreme range of combat in TOS/TMP, it's not unreasonable to have fixed weapons emplacements.

Besides, ommitting those mechanisms leaves more room for the captain's Lovenasium.
Phasers would need to rotate to some degree. If they were fixed, the only ways you could hit you're target would be by manoeuvring the ship (slow and wastes energy) or by having your target move conveniently into the line of your phasers. Rotating/pivoting phasers are much more likely to keep a lock on their target.

Enough room for the captain's Lovenasium? That probably explains the size of the Abramaprise!
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Old April 11 2010, 08:43 PM   #20
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Lovenasium - Madman you should probably add this to the list of changes!
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Old April 11 2010, 09:40 PM   #21
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Science Officer wrote: View Post
Lovenasium - Madman you should probably add this to the list of changes!


Nice progress here. I really like your idea for the phaser emplacements, but I have to agree that it seems the would need some ability to move along both the x- and y-axis to allow for adequate fire coverage. Doesn't necessarily mean we have to see a "ball turret" visible on the exterior of the ship, though, I think, so I'm sure it could work within the structure you've created.

One thought regarding the torp launchers, if you're interested in trying something different: I've always thought there was no reason you couldn't have dual paired launchers stacked vertically on the "neck" instead of horizontally (though, I'm apparently one of the only people who actually likes the torp launchers on the TMP E.)

Also, I doubt it's possible, but the only thing I have always thought should have been changed, even on the original (fair warning, sacrilege to follow), is that the "neck" should somehow be thicker. I know all the arguments about it not "needing" to be thicker, but I've just always thought it would be interesting to see what it would look like if the neck were even just a little bit thicker; not Ent-B thick, mind you, but a bit more structurally significant, if you will.

In fact, that leads me to another thought I've long had ..., but I'll stop for now.
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Old April 11 2010, 10:41 PM   #22
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

One of Matt Jefferies' early designs showed something like a observation deck at the base of the neck. Since you've moved the PT launcher, maybe some kind of crew lounge/observation deck/VIP reception area for this structure?

You know, for those times when the E isn't making first contact with the phasers...
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Old April 11 2010, 11:42 PM   #23
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

When I first saw TOS "Big E" firing her phasers I sort of got the impression that they were coming from either the lower dome or the the "ring" at its base. An since there was also a "ring" on the upper dome/bridge assembly I thought it was quite logical that they were the utlra moder weapons assemblies... Not unlike the phaser strips of later Trek ships.

The TMP era "E" photorp launchers "interior sets" were something that I've always thought could have been done better...(the manual gratings et al) not as an advanced a system as TOS had described. Also having a docking port there didn't make much sense either...kind a like entering a WWII battle ship through one of the main turrets.

The lower hull here looks a bit blimp-like, but before I complain too loudly I want to see how it details out...may not be an issue.

Lastly, I too like the attempt to add elements from all eras of Trek it adds something I think that Chuch/Abrams completely missed the boat on. This is great stuff, go ahead on!

-Chuck
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Old April 12 2010, 12:00 AM   #24
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

As always, amazing work.

The way those phasers are might reduce the firing arc a little bit (at least upward & backward, if they went that far as balls), but they do look better.

You could try the PhaseII style torp launchers, the way they appeared in the first TMP ads. I always like this "version", but of course it was the first picture we ever saw at the time.
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Old April 12 2010, 12:27 AM   #25
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

An idea has struck me -

You can make the phasers like the overhead air conditioning nozzles on airliners, and stick them in those new housings ya got there.

TrekkieMonster wrote: View Post
Also, I doubt it's possible, but the only thing I have always thought should have been changed, even on the original (fair warning, sacrilege to follow), is that the "neck" should somehow be thicker. I know all the arguments about it not "needing" to be thicker, but I've just always thought it would be interesting to see what it would look like if the neck were even just a little bit thicker; not Ent-B thick, mind you, but a bit more structurally significant, if you will.
I tend to agree. The TMP E has a bit of cool stuff at the top of the neck to make it look more structurally anchored, and the torpedo deck serves the same visual purpose with the engineering hull. It looks to be just hardly attached now. A slight bit of beefing shouldn't do too much harm, should it?
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Old April 12 2010, 01:15 AM   #26
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Tons of interesting ideas, guys.

About the phaser "turrets" There is a small ball in there, that I thought would be able to rotate slightly, and move up and down. I can probably make those a little bigger, so that they are more visible.

I made the neck a little thicker than it was on either the original Enterprise, or the Refit version. I have placed the new torpedo deck on the front of the "sensor ring" above the main navigational deflector... But I am going to have to find something to place on the base of the neck. Maybe I'll just move the tubes back down there, but only have one tube...
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Old April 12 2010, 03:06 AM   #27
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Ok, not a whole lot for tonight, but something, anyway.





I made those turret balls a little bigger, and I figured out what to do with the torpedo bays. Since I was using two Enterprise's for inspiration, why not throw in another? I looked at the front torpedo bay on the Ent-D, and thought something similar would work here. It doesn't mess up the lines of the original design, makes a reason to make the neck a little fatter, and doesn't draw us much attention to itself as the bays on the refit.

What do ya'll think?
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Old April 12 2010, 03:25 AM   #28
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Hmm, that last one is kind of hard to see...



And, the whole model again...



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Old April 12 2010, 03:56 AM   #29
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Hawt.
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Old April 12 2010, 06:10 AM   #30
Tiberius
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Re: USS Defiant, NCC-1764-A

Very nice! the torp launcher looks sleek and the lines are clean!
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