RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,092
Posts: 5,399,404
Members: 24,736
Currently online: 525
Newest member: Jamestown

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

City on the Edge of Forever #3 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

TV Alert: Shatner TNG Documentary
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 14 2010, 11:57 PM   #61
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Guy in Gown

Withers wrote: View Post
Well, you named one specific situation. I would never have taken it that far but thanks for doing some of the leg work for me. The point I was making was this; the potential for hazards involved in space travel that were encountered by the Enterprise D on a fairly regular basis (i.e. hostile aliens, unknown phenomenon, instances where the ship lost power, where explosions happened, where climbing up or through jeffries tubes was required or any time the ship suddenly dropped out of warp or flung the crew from one side of the ship to the other) make the notion of wearing a skirt as a uniform somewhat silly.
Okay, so the skant supporters are correct. People on potentially hazardous duty in the 24th century never wear skants. Troi was a counselor, never meant to be in situations where she would have to do hazardous duty, which is why we often saw her in skirts, plunging necklines, etc. Until the day she was ordered by Jellico to wear a uniform like everyone else. Troi rarely held a phaser on away missions. It wasn't part of her job description.

If everyone on a starship was in constant danger of flying sparks, then no one would be allowed to wear casual clothing - or nude up, even for the sonic shower.

If the 24th century shows were filled with security guards and engineers running around performing security and engineering duties in shorts, skants and dresses maybe you'd have a point. Skants may have been the equivalent of today's Navy shore leave wear. But there's no evidence that the skant wearers in TNG were ever more than cruise directors, yeomen and counselors - or Tasha Yar, finally about to go off duty after the harrowing adventures of "Encounter at Farpoint".
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15 2010, 02:16 AM   #62
Joshua Howard
Captain
 
Joshua Howard's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, WA
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Joshua Howard
Re: Guy in Gown

I'd resign from Starfleet before I would willingly be seen wearing one of those. :-P
__________________
"The strain of the primitive... remained alive and active. Faithfulness and devotion, things born of fire and roof, were his; yet he retained his wildness and wiliness."

- The Call of the Wild, by Jack London
Joshua Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15 2010, 02:35 AM   #63
Withers
Captain
 
Location: On a boat
View Withers's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Withers Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Withers
Re: Guy in Gown

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Okay, so the skant supporters are correct.
If by correct you mean incorrect I'll be forced to agree.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
People on potentially hazardous duty in the 24th century never wear skants. Troi was a counselor, never meant to be in situations where she would have to do hazardous duty, which is why we often saw her in skirts, plunging necklines, etc. Until the day she was ordered by Jellico to wear a uniform like everyone else. Troi rarely held a phaser on away missions. It wasn't part of her job description.
Except that as I have mentioned several times now- everyone aboard Enterprise was in a potentially hazardous situation by virtue of just being there. I've said it over and over again- you didn't need to be assigned to tactical to be in danger from the hazards posted that were easily avoided by not wearing- the Skant. That is to say nothing of the fact that they had Tasha Yar wear it which 100% negates what you're trying to say (and the fact that she only did so once is immaterial.) The Enterprise routinely encountered danger that exposed the crew to situations where pants were obviously preferable over skirts. You know how I know that's true? Because they stopped using them at one point altogether. If the Skant were as reasonable as you claim it to be and were so practical and wonderful as the "skant supporters" (Nominee for Most Ignorant Reason to Assemble ever) say you'd think a version of it would have shown up later on. But of course it didn't. Why? Because it was stupid. It looked stupid and more importantly it was unreasonable and impractical.


Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
If everyone on a starship was in constant danger of flying sparks, then no one would be allowed to wear casual clothing - or nude up, even for the sonic shower.
This is just like your "I mow my lawn barefoot" argument; private civilians can do whatever they want to do. Requiring someone to wear a skirt that exposes them to hazards that they could just as easily avoid by wearing pants is unreasonable. This is also just like the distinction between a passenger jet and a starship; if you can't understand the difference between going to work in a potentially dangerous environment and taking a shower I... can't help you.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
If the 24th century shows were filled with security guards and engineers running around performing security and engineering duties in shorts, skants and dresses maybe you'd have a point. Skants may have been the equivalent of today's Navy shore leave wear. But there's no evidence that the skant wearers in TNG were ever more than cruise directors, yeomen and counselors - or Tasha Yar, finally about to go off duty after the harrowing adventures of "Encounter at Farpoint".
First of all there's no evidence that they weren't. For all we know that guys job description was Jeffries Tube Maintenance Chief. That there is no explicit evidence either way does not, however, negate the fact that they existed and were stupid- the entire point of this circus. Secondly, as I've pointed out, it doesn't matter what your job is- wearing a uniform that exposes you environmental hazards on the Enterprise while on duty is unreasonable. Thirdly, there's no such thing as a "shore leave" uniform. These people were all on duty and it was a standard duty uniform not a dress uniform.





-Withers-
Withers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15 2010, 02:39 AM   #64
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Guy in Gown

Withers wrote: View Post
Requiring someone to wear a skirt that exposes them to hazards that they could just as easily avoid by wearing pants is unreasonable.
Who, in TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT Starfleet was required to wear a skirt?

No one.

Thirdly, there's no such thing as a "shore leave" uniform. These people were all on duty and it was a standard duty uniform not a dress uniform.
Who says? Starfleet crewmembers are not required to be "on duty" when on shore leave. There were standard uniforms, dress uniforms and casual uniforms. And times when they can wear civvies. Just like in today's Navy.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15 2010, 02:55 AM   #65
Withers
Captain
 
Location: On a boat
View Withers's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Withers Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Withers
Re: Guy in Gown

If ever I've seen a grasp for straws this was it. At this point in the debate (unless someone with actual points shows up) this will devolve into a series of contorted semantics and minatuae which will have little if not nothing to do with the original point; The skant was impractical and unreasonable. From here we will move into the realm of who said what whereupon the "victor" will be whoever keeps showing up. For more examples of this sort of nonsense I invite everyone to check out the TOS Forum and the XI forum.

Ah... okay, here we go.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Withers wrote: View Post
Requiring someone to wear a skirt that exposes them to hazards that they could just as easily avoid by wearing pants is unreasonable.
Who, in TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT Starfleet was required to wear a skirt?

No one.
Let's just pick at what you said, shall we? First of all we know TNG is the only place the skant showed up. So why you would ask who on any of the other shows was required to where them where no such duty uniform existed is strange... unless of course it was to bait me in which case well done. Just for the sake of keeping this on track I'll retract the word "required" and replace that argument with this;that they would even offer such a uniform for anything but as a dress uniform (which it clearly wasn't) is unreasonable. It's stupid for it to even be an option. Now, whether or not he was required to wear it? We'll obviously never have a definitive answer to that question but I would pose this; if he could wear pants, why wouldn't he? It isn't hot on the Enterprise and there's certainly no lack of water. The standard uniforms themselves (according to Worf) were made to be worn and be comfortable in even the most extreme situations so what would the reason be if not for the fact that he were required? That's aside the point though I guess- it even being an option is the stupid part. Why anyone would personally choose it is sort of irrelevant I guess (since everyone has their own sense of style and what looks good.)

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Who says? Starfleet crewmembers are not required to be "on duty" when on shore leave. There were standard uniforms, dress uniforms and casual uniforms. And times when they can wear civvies. Just like in today's Navy.
Well, first of all, we know Starfleet crew members are not required to wear uniforms while shore leave. How many countless times have we seen people on shore leave in civilian clothing? That's been happening since TOS. Secondly, none of the people wearing the skant were on shore leave. They were on duty. Thirdly, and sorry to beat a dead horse but you kind of leave me no choice, wearing such a thing exposes them to hazards and inconveniences they needn't be while they are on duty.


-Withers-
Withers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15 2010, 03:21 AM   #66
Withers
Captain
 
Location: On a boat
View Withers's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Withers Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Withers
Re: Guy in Gown

I'm still digging for the quote but I know I read somewhere that the uniform this character wears was inspired by the skant (this was a long time ago and I'm not going to dig for it much longer but even if it weren't true... this is what a skirt uniform in space is perceived as now.) I don't know how this didn't come up sooner. You want to know how practical and plausible the Skant was? It was the uniform of choice for this guy:




I rest my case. (Literally- I feel my work is done here.)



-Withers-
Withers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2 2010, 04:51 PM   #67
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Guy in Gown


SpyOne wrote: View Post
Yeah, the reason modern military uniforms include the option of skirts for women is that less than 100 years ago it was fairly scandalous for a woman to wear pants.
The military is a little slow to change, but change it does.
Perhaps this changed, I mean the speed of change. The mini-skirt wore on TOS might reflect a current civilian style that is being emulated in the Starfleet uniform worn by Human officers and enlisted. And it may have been fairly briefly in fashion too, lasting only a few years. In the time period of TNG, Starfleet personnel might possess the option of wearing a TOS style mini, but simply do not exercise the personal option .

Withers wrote: View Post
First of all she's a character from the early 1960's not the late 1980's.
This is where you're wrong, Nichelle Nichols was a actress from the mid 1960's. Uhura was a character from the mid 23rd century, dressed as a person from that time period would be.

That's a picture of a woman in a dress uniform ironically enough. Do you think she wears that while she's piloting an F-18? Or parachutes wearing that?
I was going to point out that I've piloted (small) aircraft before wearing a mini, but wait a second , what I was actual wearing was a unitard with a mini, very convenient and comfortable. And that (kind of) is what the women were wearing on Star Trek, if you visualize Helen Noels crawling through that air shaft it would be easy to imagine the briefs being a integral attached part of the uniform, the same with Uhura in the few scenes where you can see her nickers. The uniform is actual very practical viewed as a sort of skirted non-tight unitard, it provides increased freedom of movement over the male uniforms which makes it more practical not less, It would be much easier for the women (and men) to fight in than if they were wearing trousers.

I've also parachuted in a unitard

things were always spraying sparks all over the place
But the women were not bare legged. Their were wearing 23rd century stockings, I can't remember there being a case of anyone have even a torn stocking and thay would have protected the legs just as well as the jumpsuits wore by Crusher and Janeway. There would have been no problem crawling through jeffreies tubes (Noels in the air shaft, no problems). In the episode WRLGMO, Nurse Chapel beams down to a planet with extreme cold temperatures. She's wearing a mini and her legs appear no more colder that her fully covered arms (Remember: in-universe explanations only !)

having families aboard put civilians unnecessarily in harms way.
I've alway had a little problem with this. People do take their children into (semi) dangerious situaions because they want them close. I was born on a US military base in Germany in 1987, not to far from the "Funda Gap," My parents put their four children directly in the path of Soviet tank columns because they wanted us close to them.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Please present some examples from 24th century "Star Trek" where skant-wearing Starfleet officers or security guards were sent into hazardous situations.
And while we're at it, please could you provide some examples where the standard TNG/DS9/VOY jumpsuit provided protection from phaser fire, Klingon bat-leth or Borg assimilation tubes? Modern day military personnel wear a uniform because it is in fact a uniform. Female military personnel, if given a choice, would in fact wear shorts and short skirts on duty in some situations.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3 2010, 07:53 AM   #68
Bad Atom
Commodore
 
Bad Atom's Avatar
 
Location: Ohio
View Bad Atom's Twitter Profile
Re: Guy in Gown

We interrupt this thread to bring you the horrifying mental image of Riker wearing a skant, hunched over Data's station with one leg propped up.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.
Bad Atom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3 2010, 10:29 PM   #69
vess
Lieutenant
 
Re: Guy in Gown

Do you know who is the real loser of this debate?

Charles Tucker, the poster who is new to Trek and has quite possibly been scared away from the BBS after his first thread.

Imagine the "fuck my life" moment that guy/girl had.

Also, fully knowing the "trolling" nature my post will surely receive, allow me to add:
Skant = totally dumb.
vess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3 2010, 10:34 PM   #70
Joeman
Captain
 
Joeman's Avatar
 
Location: Purgatory
Re: Guy in Gown

I have always marveled at the balls of that dude. Nice skirt for a non-Scottish Asian guy.
__________________
Joeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2010, 02:48 PM   #71
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Guy in Gown

Bad Atom wrote: View Post
We interrupt this thread to bring you the horrifying mental image of Riker wearing a skant, hunched over Data's station with one leg propped up.
Still wouldn't happen.

As I said several times before, the 24th century skant - and even Uhura, Rand and Chapel's uniform in the 23rd century - had one wrapped leg. It's not possible for the skant to "ride up", or for Riker's "last will and testicles" to be exposed.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
if you visualize Helen Noels crawling through that air shaft it would be easy to imagine the briefs being a integral attached part of the uniform, the same with Uhura
No need to "imagine". That's precisely how those female uniforms were made. Grace Lee Whitney told me herself in 1982.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2010, 01:37 PM   #72
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Guy in Gown

On this board people are encouraging other people to wear Star Trek uniforms in public, but at the same time, men wearing skirts is silly? LOL.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2010, 03:13 PM   #73
Avon
Fleet Captain
 
Avon's Avatar
 
Location: Space Wales
Re: Guy in Gown

this all comes down to whether you're grossed out by the idea of a guy in a skirt.

plus, if it was 300 years in the future i might want to show off my legs!

anyhow, is that skant uniform any worse than if old, fat riker was to wear something stretchy and tight? I don't think anyone would care about either in a fictional future.
Avon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2010, 06:54 PM   #74
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Guy in Gown

junxon wrote: View Post
guy in a skirt.
I guess it's possible that, while it was a male actor playing the part, it could have been a female character.

It's called ACTING.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12 2010, 10:07 PM   #75
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Guy in Gown

junxon wrote: View Post
this all comes down to whether you're grossed out by the idea of a guy in a skirt.
Trousers for men are a fairly recent invention. Check out a few historical illusstrations of togas, sarongs and kilts.

http://www.roman-empire-america-now.com/skirts.html
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
silly

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.