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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old April 9 2010, 05:37 AM   #1
Charles Tucker
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Guy in Gown

Hello,
I am rather new to Star Trek but I have to say I am quite an avid fan. I have recently started watching The Next Generation and I have noticed in the first season there is a man who walks around in a Starfleet gown. I was curious as to why and what purpose this serves. I have included a picture. This is a screenshot from episode 11001001.



Thank you very much for any light you can shine on the subject. Speculations are completely welcome.

Trip
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Old April 9 2010, 06:00 AM   #2
Withers
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Re: Guy in Gown

From Memory Alpha...

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star...2350s-2360s%29


The uniform was used primarily by background actors, though "Encounter at Farpoint" featured both Deanna Troi and Natasha Yar in skant-type uniforms, the latter only briefly. While Troi got a new look entirely for subsequent episodes (according to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion the uniform was referred to as the "Space Cheerleader" look), Yar remained in her jumpsuit uniform for the rest of her stay aboard the Enterprise, never donning the skant after the pilot episode. Male crewmembers wearing the skant were only seen in few episodes, "Encounter at Farpoint", "Haven", "Conspiracy", "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "11001001", though the footage seen in the last episode was re-used from "Where No One Has Gone Before". The skant was only seen in the first season and appeared four times in the second season, worn with black trousers underneath. After that it reappeared only once, in the flashbacks during "All Good Things...




Hope that clears it up for you. For the record I'm glad they got rid of it. The idea of a woman "working" in that uniform seemed unrealistic. The idea of a man working in it was just outright silly.



-Withers-
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Old April 9 2010, 06:44 AM   #3
Charles Tucker
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Re: Guy in Gown

Thank you a lot. That totally clears things up. I tried to figure it out for myself on memory alpha; however, I could not find anything under the term which I was using. As you know is "gown"


Trip
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Old April 9 2010, 11:46 AM   #4
SpyOne
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Re: Guy in Gown

Here's the thing: back on TOS, the female characters wore skirts, often quite short skirts. It was the late 1960s, after all.
By the late 1970s, Gene was getting a bit of flack from fans about that, and how it appeared sexist. So when TNG appeared, .... we saw that male officers sometimes wore skirts too. So it wasn't "sexist", it was just an option that the women on-screen in TOS overwhelmingly chose.
Then they disappeared, probably because they looked a bit silly and, as my mother once said, "It is impossible to do any kind of meaningful work in a skirt" (although I know some Scotsmen who would disagree).
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Old April 9 2010, 04:09 PM   #5
Therin of Andor
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Re: Guy in Gown

Charles Tucker wrote: View Post
Thank you a lot. That totally clears things up.
In TOS, the controversial mini dress worn by the female crew was essentially co-designed by Grace Lee Whitney, who'd complained to William Ware Theiss that she hated having to wear Sally Kellerman's hand-me-down black slacks in pre-publicity photos and wanted to express 1960s (and 23rd century) femininity by wearing a spacesuit that showed off her legs. (Similar to how womens' libbers made political statements by wearing mini-skirts.) In fact, the Starfleet uniform dress is not a mini "skirt" at all, since one leg is actually wrapped by fabric. A divided skirt, similar to culottes.

For TNG, the in-joke was that, this time, the so-called "skant" (short pants that appear to be a skirt) would be worn by both sexes. Several males are seen wearing skants in "Encounter at Farpoint".
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Old April 9 2010, 07:38 PM   #6
The Trekster
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Re: Guy in Gown

He is the secret asian man:

http://www.myspace.com/secret_asianman
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Old April 9 2010, 08:53 PM   #7
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Re: Guy in Gown

Thanks for the info, Therin. I guess I owe Grace Lee Whitney a bit of gratitude.
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Old April 9 2010, 08:54 PM   #8
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Re: Guy in Gown

Funny thing is, people always make fun of the fact that it's a dress, but that's not the real problem with it. After all, why shouldn't men wear dresses? No, the real problem is that it's a horrible dress!
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Old April 9 2010, 10:26 PM   #9
JarodRussell
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Re: Guy in Gown

Withers wrote: View Post
From Memory Alpha...

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star...2350s-2360s%29


The uniform was used primarily by background actors, though "Encounter at Farpoint" featured both Deanna Troi and Natasha Yar in skant-type uniforms, the latter only briefly. While Troi got a new look entirely for subsequent episodes (according to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion the uniform was referred to as the "Space Cheerleader" look), Yar remained in her jumpsuit uniform for the rest of her stay aboard the Enterprise, never donning the skant after the pilot episode. Male crewmembers wearing the skant were only seen in few episodes, "Encounter at Farpoint", "Haven", "Conspiracy", "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "11001001", though the footage seen in the last episode was re-used from "Where No One Has Gone Before". The skant was only seen in the first season and appeared four times in the second season, worn with black trousers underneath. After that it reappeared only once, in the flashbacks during "All Good Things...


Hope that clears it up for you. For the record I'm glad they got rid of it. The idea of a woman "working" in that uniform seemed unrealistic. The idea of a man working in it was just outright silly.




-Withers-
Dude, it's a future 300 years from today. Look at how silly people dressed 300 years ago , and imagine how silly we'd look to them.
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Old April 9 2010, 10:59 PM   #10
Dukhat
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Re: Guy in Gown

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Withers wrote: View Post
From Memory Alpha...

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star...2350s-2360s%29


The uniform was used primarily by background actors, though "Encounter at Farpoint" featured both Deanna Troi and Natasha Yar in skant-type uniforms, the latter only briefly. While Troi got a new look entirely for subsequent episodes (according to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion the uniform was referred to as the "Space Cheerleader" look), Yar remained in her jumpsuit uniform for the rest of her stay aboard the Enterprise, never donning the skant after the pilot episode. Male crewmembers wearing the skant were only seen in few episodes, "Encounter at Farpoint", "Haven", "Conspiracy", "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "11001001", though the footage seen in the last episode was re-used from "Where No One Has Gone Before". The skant was only seen in the first season and appeared four times in the second season, worn with black trousers underneath. After that it reappeared only once, in the flashbacks during "All Good Things...


Hope that clears it up for you. For the record I'm glad they got rid of it. The idea of a woman "working" in that uniform seemed unrealistic. The idea of a man working in it was just outright silly.




-Withers-
Dude, it's a future 300 years from today. Look at how silly people dressed 300 years ago , and imagine how silly we'd look to them.
Yes, but people from 300 years in the future weren't watching the show. People from 1987 were.
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Old April 9 2010, 11:01 PM   #11
JarodRussell
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Re: Guy in Gown

Dukhat wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Dude, it's a future 300 years from today. Look at how silly people dressed 300 years ago , and imagine how silly we'd look to them.
Yes, but people from 300 years in the future weren't watching the show. People from 1987 were.
And?
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Old April 9 2010, 11:09 PM   #12
Dukhat
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Re: Guy in Gown

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Dude, it's a future 300 years from today. Look at how silly people dressed 300 years ago , and imagine how silly we'd look to them.
Yes, but people from 300 years in the future weren't watching the show. People from 1987 were.
And?
And perhaps an enlightened human race from 300 years in the future might stumble upon archaic DVDs of the show and not bat an eyelash about men in dresses, but the viewers in 1987 thought they were silly. And they were who mattered.
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Old April 9 2010, 11:25 PM   #13
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Re: Guy in Gown

It has nothing to do with who was watching when. The notion of performing duties in a skirt is ridiculous. Ask anybody who has to do any form of manual labor (like realigning sensors, crawling in a Jeffries Tube, or performing calisthenics) in the real world and they'll tell you that a skirt is hardly the easiest thing to work in. It's like working in high heels or in combat boots if you're a sever at a restaurant. It's just impractical and doesn't take any advanced form of knowledge to figure that out.
-Withers-
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Old April 9 2010, 11:49 PM   #14
JarodRussell
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Re: Guy in Gown

Withers wrote: View Post
It has nothing to do with who was watching when. The notion of performing duties in a skirt is ridiculous. Ask anybody who has to do any form of manual labor (like realigning sensors, crawling in a Jeffries Tube, or performing calisthenics) in the real world and they'll tell you that a skirt is hardly the easiest thing to work in. It's like working in high heels or in combat boots if you're a sever at a restaurant. It's just impractical and doesn't take any advanced form of knowledge to figure that out.
-Withers-
Who says this crewman has to crawl through tubes?


And I think you didn't get what I was saying. People from the 18th century looking at our fashion would find it utterly ridiculous. So it would just be realistic if Trek characters wore ridiculous stuff. Above all it is supposed to be a Science Fiction show.
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Old April 10 2010, 12:06 AM   #15
Therin of Andor
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Re: Guy in Gown

Withers wrote: View Post
The notion of performing duties in a skirt is ridiculous. Ask anybody who has to do any form of manual labor (like realigning sensors, crawling in a Jeffries Tube, or performing calisthenics) in the real world and they'll tell you that a skirt is hardly the easiest thing to work in.
The whole point of Roddenberry's "spray and wear" futuristic clothing (demonstrated in TMP when the Ilia Probe comes aboard) was that 23rd century workers could very quickly get changed into more appropriate clothing for the job they had to do. In ST:TMP and ST II, the crew very quickly add field jackets when leaving the ship.

Now, the practicalities of filming ST II - ST VI and TNG were that Starfleet clothes were often seen being put away onto hangers or into drawers, but that wasn't the concept behind the creation of the skant. Clothing (at the design stage) assumed that switching clothes could be done extremely quickly, as fast as beaming down to a planet. As I said in an earlier post, the skant design was more like current-day culottes - a divided skirt, that wouldn't "ride up". Even in TOS, the mini dress wasn't actually a dress: one thigh was wrapped by fabric.

In "Encounter at Farpoint", we see Tasha in pants during the action scenes and in a skant once the adventure is over.

The idea that some planets being visited might be incredibly hot would make a casual, short version of the uniform essential. Why not something that looks like a skirt, no matter a person's gender?

Don't current navy uniforms still include a "shorts and long socks" version for hot climates?
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