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Old April 7 2010, 02:42 AM   #31
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I thought it was quite a leap myself. In a story outline I did, I had the Andorians in group marriages centered around a female.
At the time of the planning for the "Avatar" duology that kicked off the post-DS9 novels, editor Marco Palmieri looked at what possible paradigms would give the best, freshest story ideas that could unfold over a long arc. Since almost all ST aliens to that point had been of two familiar sexes, it was felt that Data's curious one-liner, in "Data's Day", gave a fresh angle. Thus there were four Andorian sexes to go with the four partners mentioned on air, that wouldn't just sound like a typical human polygamy.
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Old April 7 2010, 03:17 AM   #32
DevilEyes
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
*annoying nitpick*

It was never canonically established that Andorians have four sexes though.


All of this is apocryphal speculation based on the following lines from "Data's Day":

Data: "In an effort to be helpful, I am trying to calculate the variables involved in a successful marriage."

Troi: "Good luck."

Data: "There are many different opinions. On Galvin Five, a marriage is considered successful only if children are produced within a year of the wedding. Andorian marriages require groups of four people unless two..."


1) Data didn't say "Andorian procreation requires groups of four people" or "Andorian marriages require groups of four people, one from each sex". In fact, the only thing he says is that it is considered a requirement for a "successful marriage" on Andoria.

2) The "unless two..." part implies that there are other forms of marriage than the four-people variant.

Given that no third or fourth sex was ever mentioned or shown during the entire run of "Enterprise, I'm inclined to say that polygamy/group marriages are just very common on Andoria. Just like the Denobulans have three husbands/wives.

*nitpick ends*
I thought I was the only one who felt this way. The whole "four sexes" things never made much sense to me.
Well, I like the fact that they made an alien race a bit more alien, rather than just humans who look a bit different.

But biologically, it really doesn't make sense, once you start thinking about it. See this thread. Because two of the sexes would be far rarer than the other two - by my calculations, statistically there should be 3 zhens and 3 thaans to 13 chans and 13 shens. Which might be a reason why the Andorians are dying out, but the four person marriage makes no sense in that context.
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Old April 7 2010, 03:31 AM   #33
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
One thing that didn't carry on over to ENT was the fact that Andorians only have antennae, not ears....(I say it's 'fact' but I don't think it was something canon). Andorians would have to bend their heads so they would be able to hear; I think it was something speculated in the TOS 'Babel' episode where we had Ambassador Shras keeping his head lowered...
That was a speculation of Bjo Trimble, interpreting the episode for the "ST Concordance". Similarly, she speculated that Andorians didn't have veins and arteries, based on McCoy's line about intramuscular injections into an Andorian in "Whom Gods Destroy".

Eileen Palestine further extrapolated these theories in the "ST Medical Reference Manual".



But Fred Phillips himself, creator of Andorian makeup, gave his female Andorians ears (and the first ridged foreheads!) in ST:TMP and the balding Andorian shown by Tom Burman in ST IV also had ears (below):

All these years, and I didn't notice that!

Looking at the TMP Andorian make-up, I definitely prefer the classic TOS, ENT, and the make-up for TVH above...
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Old April 7 2010, 04:25 AM   #34
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

^^^ Don't you mean "all these ears"? Keep in mind though that the TMP Andorians were only background extras, and so didn't need makeup that would hold up to scrutiny.
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Old April 7 2010, 06:13 AM   #35
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
Keep in mind though that the TMP Andorians were only background extras, and so didn't need makeup that would hold up to scrutiny.
Keep in mind, though, that when Fred Phillips was trialing this then-new "slip latex" for creating appliances (rather than the old days where everything had to be baked daily in a kiln, used once, then tossed out and new ones baked again), he didn't know that Robert Wise would delegate all the new UFP aliens to the background.



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Old January 29 2012, 05:16 AM   #36
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Anji wrote: View Post
Combs took it to a new level. He made being a villain cool.
Combs owned that role--probably the most stand out performance in he whole Enterprise series. I would love to see more Andorians played like this. So well done. It made the goofiness of the character/race disappear.
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Old January 29 2012, 06:03 AM   #37
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

weren't there andorians in the background on TNG an Ds9?
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Old January 29 2012, 06:58 AM   #38
Anwar
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

There was one Andorian we saw in TNG, it was when Data's daughter was choosing various forms it could assume (before she decided she was a "she"). One of them was an Andorian male, but the FX tech back then (TV budget) wasn't advanced enough for the Andorian design to look good enough so they kept them off-screen until ENT when the tech could show good Andorians.
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Old January 29 2012, 07:16 AM   #39
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Anwar wrote: View Post
There was one Andorian we saw in TNG, it was when Data's daughter was choosing various forms it could assume (before she decided she was a "she"). One of them was an Andorian male, but the FX tech back then (TV budget) wasn't advanced enough for the Andorian design to look good enough so they kept them off-screen until ENT when the tech could show good Andorians.
Um, that's silly...the Andorians were introduced in the 1960s...on TV.

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Old January 29 2012, 07:35 AM   #40
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

^ That's good old Rick Berman for you. He thought that the makeup for Andorians (and for Tellarites as well) looked too corny - like something out of a 1950s B movie. So he refused to use them until ENT came along and the makeup department was able to convince him that they could make them look "good."

And we actually see two Andorians on TNG - the one which Anwar pointed out and another one in Captain's Holiday - he's on Risa, but we only see his back during the scene where Picard is reading his book.
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Old January 29 2012, 08:06 AM   #41
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Anwar wrote: View Post
One of them was an Andorian male
Female, actually. There was also Klingon male ("a friend for Worf") and humans of both genders.

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
^ That's good old Rick Berman for you. He thought that the makeup for Andorians (and for Tellarites as well) looked too corny - like something out of a 1950s B movie. So he refused to use them until ENT came along and the makeup department was able to convince him that they could make them look "good."
Yep. He thought they looked "hokey". But, to be fair, he was also working off a mandate made by Gene Roddenberry that races we had seen before should not be seen too often. The original premise for TNG was that the Enterprise was going to be departing known space after solving the Farpoint mystery, and therefore would not be passing through Romulan, Klingon, Andorian or Tellarite space. So, Enterprise had a token Klingon, a few Vulcans and that was going to be it for TOS races.

the one which Anwar pointed out and another one in Captain's Holiday - he's on Risa, but we only see his back during the scene where Picard is reading his book.

Holidaying Andorian on Risa by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

It's a reuse of the costume and makeup made for the Lal episode.

RAMA wrote: View Post
Um, that's silly...the Andorians were introduced in the 1960s...on TV.
With antennae that were made out of wooden cotton spools, pilfered from the seamstress's workroom.

The Andorians in TMP had slender tendrill-like antennae, made from a new type of "slip latex", then very expensive.


TMP Female by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

Similarly, the balding Andorian admiral featured in ST IV made use of state of the art latex work - on a motion picture budget - that enabled them to show off the antennae bases with no wig needed to hide the seams.


UFP Councillor, ST IV by Therin of Andor, on Flickr


Balding UFP Councillor, ST IV by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

Late 1980s TV couldn't afford that, so they had to wait till miniaturization of radio control parts enabled relatively silent movement - and then really show bang for their makeup buck!
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; January 29 2012 at 08:59 AM. Reason: typo
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Old January 29 2012, 08:42 AM   #42
captcalhoun
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

holy shit, ZOMBIE THREAD!
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Old January 29 2012, 08:46 AM   #43
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Love zombie threads, we should have more of them.

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Old January 29 2012, 06:01 PM   #44
captcalhoun
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

they get locked. usually with a head-shot.
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Old January 29 2012, 11:28 PM   #45
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

We've had zombie Vulcans. We need zombie Andorians.
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