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Old April 5 2010, 02:40 AM   #16
Nerys Myk
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

A lot of planets have a South.
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Old April 5 2010, 06:32 AM   #17
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

The reason was that Berman thought they looked goofy. But, I've said it before and I'll say it again - the NUMEROUS aliens whose only difference from Humans was an attachment to the forehead looked much more goofy.
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Old April 5 2010, 07:12 AM   #18
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Come on guys... I simply have a different opinion.

I was obviously talking about the 1) Earth 2) American "South."

Foreheads alone don't make for realistic aliens but they often help, as does other latex. Plus, the Andorians on ENT did have latex foreheads additions.
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Old April 5 2010, 11:03 AM   #19
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Arpy wrote: View Post
... guys ...
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Old April 5 2010, 01:14 PM   #20
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
The reason was that Berman thought they looked goofy. But, I've said it before and I'll say it again - the NUMEROUS aliens whose only difference from Humans was an attachment to the forehead looked much more goofy.
Yes, but if you looked at the best Andorian they could come up with on TNG's budget in "The Offspring" Berman was right to think they wouldn't look that good for anything more than a cameo. By ENT the FX tech they had was able to make them better looking.
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Old April 5 2010, 01:28 PM   #21
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

VulcanLoveSlave wrote: View Post
Probably because they are really silly looking. Not that Bolians were much of an improvement :/
The Bolian in Conspiracy looked badass. Other bolians havent looked as good though true...
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Old April 5 2010, 05:37 PM   #22
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
The reason was that Berman thought they looked goofy. But, I've said it before and I'll say it again - the NUMEROUS aliens whose only difference from Humans was an attachment to the forehead looked much more goofy.
Yes, but if you looked at the best Andorian they could come up with on TNG's budget in "The Offspring" Berman was right to think they wouldn't look that good for anything more than a cameo. By ENT the FX tech they had was able to make them better looking.
Personally, I don't care about how they look. I would have been willing to suspend disbelief and accept them.

And it's not like I'm talking about making an Andorian a regular cast member. I think the makeup would have been perfectly acceptable for a role that was slightly bigger than a cameo. Maybe even a guest role in an episode here and there.
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Old April 6 2010, 06:27 AM   #23
I am not Spock
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

The lack of Andorians and Tellarites (two of the UFP founder members) in TNG, DS9, and VOY always bugged me. Thank God ENT did something with them.
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Old April 6 2010, 10:17 AM   #24
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Arpy wrote: View Post
weird skeletal protrusions under their uniforms
The "ST Medical Reference Manual" cleverly extrapolated a partial exoskeleton, not extending it to the forearms because we saw the bare forearm of an Andorian in "Whom Gods Destroy".



However, there used to be an Andorian listserv I belonged to, whose key members hated this idea, saying that it would make Andorians too heavy to move if a humanoid had such an exoskeleton.

some more androgynous actors for different members of the four different sexes
I liked the way Tholos seemed to eye off both T'Pol and Tucker in his two episodes.
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Old April 6 2010, 12:13 PM   #25
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

*annoying nitpick*

It was never canonically established that Andorians have four sexes though.


All of this is apocryphal speculation based on the following lines from "Data's Day":

Data: "In an effort to be helpful, I am trying to calculate the variables involved in a successful marriage."

Troi: "Good luck."

Data: "There are many different opinions. On Galvin Five, a marriage is considered successful only if children are produced within a year of the wedding. Andorian marriages require groups of four people unless two..."


1) Data didn't say "Andorian procreation requires groups of four people" or "Andorian marriages require groups of four people, one from each sex". In fact, the only thing he says is that it is considered a requirement for a "successful marriage" on Andoria.

2) The "unless two..." part implies that there are other forms of marriage than the four-people variant.

Given that no third or fourth sex was ever mentioned or shown during the entire run of "Enterprise, I'm inclined to say that polygamy/group marriages are just very common on Andoria. Just like the Denobulans have three husbands/wives.

*nitpick ends*
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Old April 6 2010, 12:20 PM   #26
VirtualDestiny
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Had we seen a character like shan much earlier on in the franchises, Im certain we would have seen far, far more andorians....then again jefferry combs is a great actor and is what made shran so likeable
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Old April 6 2010, 08:04 PM   #27
Admiral Shran
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
*annoying nitpick*

It was never canonically established that Andorians have four sexes though.


All of this is apocryphal speculation based on the following lines from "Data's Day":

Data: "In an effort to be helpful, I am trying to calculate the variables involved in a successful marriage."

Troi: "Good luck."

Data: "There are many different opinions. On Galvin Five, a marriage is considered successful only if children are produced within a year of the wedding. Andorian marriages require groups of four people unless two..."


1) Data didn't say "Andorian procreation requires groups of four people" or "Andorian marriages require groups of four people, one from each sex". In fact, the only thing he says is that it is considered a requirement for a "successful marriage" on Andoria.

2) The "unless two..." part implies that there are other forms of marriage than the four-people variant.

Given that no third or fourth sex was ever mentioned or shown during the entire run of "Enterprise, I'm inclined to say that polygamy/group marriages are just very common on Andoria. Just like the Denobulans have three husbands/wives.

*nitpick ends*
I thought I was the only one who felt this way. The whole "four sexes" things never made much sense to me.
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Old April 6 2010, 11:26 PM   #28
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post

I thought I was the only one who felt this way. The whole "four sexes" things never made much sense to me.
I'm not into the four sexes thing myself.

One thing that didn't carry on over to ENT was the fact that Andorians only have antennae, not ears....(I say it's 'fact' but I don't think it was something canon). Andorians would have to bend their heads so they would be able to hear; I think it was something speculated in the TOS 'Babel' episode where we had Ambassador Shras keeping his head lowered...
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Old April 7 2010, 01:56 AM   #29
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
One thing that didn't carry on over to ENT was the fact that Andorians only have antennae, not ears....(I say it's 'fact' but I don't think it was something canon). Andorians would have to bend their heads so they would be able to hear; I think it was something speculated in the TOS 'Babel' episode where we had Ambassador Shras keeping his head lowered...
That was a speculation of Bjo Trimble, interpreting the episode for the "ST Concordance". Similarly, she speculated that Andorians didn't have veins and arteries, based on McCoy's line about intramuscular injections into an Andorian in "Whom Gods Destroy".

Eileen Palestine further extrapolated these theories in the "ST Medical Reference Manual".



But Fred Phillips himself, creator of Andorian makeup, gave his female Andorians ears (and the first ridged foreheads!) in ST:TMP and the balding Andorian shown by Tom Burman in ST IV also had ears (below):

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Old April 7 2010, 02:13 AM   #30
Nerys Myk
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Re: Why no Andorians in the TNG/DS9/VOY era?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
*annoying nitpick*

It was never canonically established that Andorians have four sexes though.


All of this is apocryphal speculation based on the following lines from "Data's Day":

Data: "In an effort to be helpful, I am trying to calculate the variables involved in a successful marriage."

Troi: "Good luck."

Data: "There are many different opinions. On Galvin Five, a marriage is considered successful only if children are produced within a year of the wedding. Andorian marriages require groups of four people unless two..."


1) Data didn't say "Andorian procreation requires groups of four people" or "Andorian marriages require groups of four people, one from each sex". In fact, the only thing he says is that it is considered a requirement for a "successful marriage" on Andoria.

2) The "unless two..." part implies that there are other forms of marriage than the four-people variant.

Given that no third or fourth sex was ever mentioned or shown during the entire run of "Enterprise, I'm inclined to say that polygamy/group marriages are just very common on Andoria. Just like the Denobulans have three husbands/wives.

*nitpick ends*
I thought I was the only one who felt this way. The whole "four sexes" things never made much sense to me.
Yeah I thought it was quite a leap myself. In a story outline I did, I had the Andorians in group marriages centered around a female. I also made their cuture a matriarchy.
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