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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

View Poll Results: What do you think about Worf and DS9's later seasons
DS9 did not improve after Worf's arrival 3 6.82%
DS9 improved withWorf -- and Worf helped a great deal 18 40.91%
DS9 improved with Worf -- but Worf had little to do with it 17 38.64%
DS9 improved with Worf -- but it did so in spite of Worf 6 13.64%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 25 2010, 09:28 AM   #1
M-Red
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Worf and the Improvement of DS9

Did the show improve with the arrival of Worf? If so, to what extent was that because of him? Or not?


Reason I'm curious is because I've noticed a lot more Worf grumblings on here and other places. This has surprised me since I liked Worf on TNG (especially from S3-on) and really liked him on DS9....thought he was a much richer character on DS9 and thought he enhanced the show.


While I think DS9 really started to turn for the better in S3 --before Worf's arrival --I think Seasons 4-on are just outstanding. And Season 4 of course begins with Worf's arrival in "Way of the Warrior"....so I guess I just always associated Worf's arrival with the growing strength of the show as it progressed....and maybe I just assumed that most people did as well?


But it seems there are some different opinions on Worf's influence on the show...and to what degree his arrival helped or hurt the series. What are some thoughts?
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Old March 25 2010, 09:55 AM   #2
M-Red
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

*note: I never believed that Worf was the cause of DS9's improvement or anything like that....and that's not listed as an option....but just thought Worf arrived at a time when the show was really starting to get good and his presence was an added plus that made it even better than it would have been.
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Old March 25 2010, 02:03 PM   #3
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

The show really came together when Worf arrived, definitely, and he added a lot to the show, so I went with option 2.

It's true, though, that there's a lot more to it than Worf - Sisko is now the bald goateed guy and Avery Brooks is being let loose a little bit more, the arcs are coming together very nicely, and so on.
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Old March 25 2010, 02:28 PM   #4
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

Kegg wrote: View Post
The show really came together when Worf arrived, definitely, and he added a lot to the show, so I went with option 2.

It's true, though, that there's a lot more to it than Worf - Sisko is now the bald goateed guy and Avery Brooks is being let loose a little bit more, the arcs are coming together very nicely, and so on.
I agree with Kegg here. Worf was a good fit, and I don't particularly agree with the idea that he didn't add much (I know some don't like him at all), but of course he was only one of the components that helped solidify the show (not that it wasn't good before hand, of course).
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Old March 25 2010, 06:00 PM   #5
Kirkman1987
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

I loved Worf on DS9, and although the show was already improving without him, it benefited greatly from having him there.
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Old March 25 2010, 06:13 PM   #6
M-Red
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

thanks for these responses -- they reflect my thoughts on the topic too


but there are several votes for Option #3....would be nice to hear what they had to say too....
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Old March 25 2010, 06:18 PM   #7
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

I liked Worf on TNG and at the time looked forward to his addition to DS9 but honestly in the scheme of things I didn't think that his addition really was the source of DS9 improving. In fact, I found season four rather underwhelming. The Klingon/Federation tension wasn't capitalized on and even worse the Klingons/Worf pushed the more interesting Dominion off for another year and a half.

Really I thought the improvement for DS9 came with the Dominion War and the heavier tone it brought to the series, more of a focus on the more interesting recurring characters like the Founder/Weyoun/Damar/Dukat/Winn/Garak and more serialization. Towards the end Worf, Martok and the Klingons worked best in bringing in yet another perspective on the Dominion and the War. But really I always saw the season five two-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light" the real turning point for the show since it upped the stakes and pulled together what was up until then disparate--and sometimes uninteresting-- threads and unified them in a very clever way. And to me this more ambitious epic storytelling--which we had seen glimmers of as far back as the Circle trilogy-- is what sold me on DS9 and looking back that is the one disappointing thing--DS9 didn't fully embrace a serialized style much sooner and to a much more heavily serialized way since it really allowed the show to carve its own unique identity.
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Old March 25 2010, 07:10 PM   #8
Pemmer Harge
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

OK, I voted that it didn't improve with Worf, but I need to explain what I mean by that: Season 3 is one of my favourite seasons and I like it better than Season 4, so for me, the show's overall quality actually decreased somewhat after Worf's arrival. However, my absolute favourite of the seven seasons is Season 5, so DS9 did improve after Worf arrived, but not immediately.

I think Worf's initial impact on the show was largely negative. I'm not a fan of the focus on the Klingons during Season 4 (I think the later seasons handled the Klingons much better) - it didn't seem to go anywhere for a long time and some of the episodes were quite poor. He also didn't interest me much as a character during his first year on the show (and I liked him on TNG), although he was used a lot better in subsequent seasons.

I've never really understood the idea that DS9 got good with Season 4. The way I see it The Jem'Hadar and The Search were a much bigger turning point than The Way of the Warrior was and I don't see any more consistency in Season 4 than in Season 3.
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Old March 25 2010, 09:39 PM   #9
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

DS9 improved with Worf -- but Worf had little to do with it

That doesn't mean I disliked Worf, I felt he was an enjoyable presence on the show and opened up many new avenues for storytelling, but the show didn't improve because of Worf, the show improved because because the writing was improving and Worf's character was one of a whole swath of things which benefited from that. The show would have gotten better regardless of whether Worf was in the cast or not, but I'm glad that the character was around all the same.
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Old March 25 2010, 10:06 PM   #10
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

I felt Worf was never as strong a presence on DS9 as he was on TNG.

He really had very little to add as a character, although I was glad using him for humourous lines wasn't above the writers. Take for example the first 3 Worf episodes we got, The Sword of Kahless, Sons of Mogh and Rules of Engagement. None of them are particularly strong episodes, while other episodes in Season 4 like Rejoined, Return to Grace, Our Man Bashir, Shattered Mirror, The Quickening are all great episodes without really needing to use Worf much.

He was ideal for the one-liners, so while he contributed a bit to the show, it could have got along just fine without him.
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Old March 25 2010, 10:22 PM   #11
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

Eyes330 wrote: View Post
I felt Worf was never as strong a presence on DS9 as he was on TNG.
Personally, I feel precisely the opposite. I always liked Worf on TNG, but I think DS9 is where he really got a chance to shine.

I think the show really started to get better by season TWO if anything, but I'm all for the notion that it got better and better, S4 being no exception. I think Worf was a great addition to DS9 and while the show didn't really get better because of him, he was definitely a welcome element that was generally used pretty well.

So I voted- DS9 improved with Worf -- but Worf had little to do with it
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Old March 26 2010, 01:01 AM   #12
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

Thing is, without Worf, I don't think we would have ever gotten a character like Martok as well. That alone is reason enough to say Worf was a great addition to DS9.

Plus, it also gave us more excuses to bring in ol' Chancellor "Bug Eyes" Gowron.
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Old March 26 2010, 01:29 AM   #13
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

I picked the last option, that the show improved in spite of Worf. Worf improved as a result of being on DSN, IMO. Putting him back on the command track was a good move, as it returned him to his original TNG roots, and it was great to see him in red and sometimes in command of the Defiant. Worf, the hot-headed Klingon, matured as a command officer and character.

What really improved DSN was the deepening of the Dominion arc, and the twists and turns it took. The Klingon invasion of Cardassia and Cardassia joining the Dominion, just to name two significant developments. were among the really significant twists the series took.
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Old March 26 2010, 01:53 AM   #14
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

DS9 improved with Worf -- but Worf had little to do with it
This. I honestly thought "Great, another character on DS9 who takes themselves a little too seriously- just what the show needs" but somehow, in spite of the fact that he did take himself too seriously, that's not how it played out. The show, over all, improved and a newer and better Worf than the one seen on TNG was one of the byproducts. Some of the best moments he had were when he behaved contrary to his "status quo" with one liners like "How comforting." Somehow this worked for Worf in a way it didn't for other characters who broke the "serious" mold (like Tuvok.)


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Old March 26 2010, 01:57 AM   #15
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Re: Worf and the Improvement of DS9

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
I think the show really started to get better by season TWO if anything, but I'm all for the notion that it got better and better, S4 being no exception.
I almost completely agree with this - almost, because there are things in late season 6 and in season 7 that were disappointing, and I certainly wouldn't put season 7 on par with seasons 5 and 6, much less above.

I voted 3, because I don't think that Worf had much to do with the show becoming more focused, intense, serialized and consistent. And this, as noted above, was a process going on since the end of season 1. Worf was good on DS9, but it's not like he played a crucial role in it - he helped develop the Klingon storyline (and I certainly enjoyed having Martok and Gowron on the show), he had a relationship with Dax and some humorous moments, but he didn't have significant relationships with any of the other characters, and the most important plots were focused on other people - Odo, Sisko, Kira, even Bashir after Section 31 was introduced, and recurring characters whose roles became increasingly important in the later seasons to the point that they felt like main characters (Garak, Dukat, Weyoun, Damar, Nog...).
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