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Old March 20 2010, 05:02 AM   #1
UncleRogi
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Crucible:McCoy

McCoy went on with his life, but one thing bothers me: Isnt the Guardian meant to maintain the timeline?
Why was he allowed that alternate life?
We know Kirk and Spock saved the day...
One of my favorites...What if type stuff
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Old March 20 2010, 06:09 AM   #2
David R. George III
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

^ The playing out of the alternate timeline requires some perspective. In 2266, McCoy travels through the Guardian of Forever and back in time, to Earth in 1930. McCoy then prevents Edith Keeler from dying in a traffic accident that year. Time passes, Edith Keeler helps found a peace movement in the United States, which delays America's entry into World War II. The U.S. does not enter the war in 1941, but does so later. McCoy's life continues, at least for a time. Decades pass, then centuries. Eventually, in 2266, Kirk, Spock, and the rest of the landing party discover that McCoy has somehow changed history, leaving them stranded with the Guardian, evidently protected from their possible nonexistence by their proximity to the strange object.

Kirk and Spock then travel back in time, following McCoy to Earth in 1930. They stop him from saving Keeler's life. The Guardian returns them to their own present, in 2266, where they discover that time has gone forward from 1930 fundamentally just as it had before McCoy changed it.

So, regardless of the "fixing" of the timeline, or the existence of alternate universes supporting differing timelines, it is clear, by virtue of history being changed in 1930, that the altered timeline does or did exist somewhere, somehow. That changed timeline contains or contained McCoy's "alternate" life.
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Old March 20 2010, 02:03 PM   #3
UncleRogi
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

Thank you, sir.

Somewhere, somehow, folks are happy.
I enjoyed your treatment of Kirk

I tell my friends that if Jim Kirk shows up, do what he says: he's saving the Universe!
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Last edited by UncleRogi; March 20 2010 at 02:43 PM. Reason: stupid spelling errors
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Old March 21 2010, 11:35 PM   #4
Herbert
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

^McCoy's presence did change the timeline when the homeless man found McCoy's phaser and accidently annihilated himself. Unless we are to believe that he would have died at the same time, but under different circumstances.

What was important was to restore the timeline so that the United Federation of Planets existed in 2266.

Although Greg Cox had a different vision of the Eugenics War, Khan would already have to be living in the 1960s to lead the Eugenics War in 1996 with the other genetic supermen, or Augments, as they were subsequently called.
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Old March 21 2010, 11:40 PM   #5
Christopher
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

UncleRogi wrote: View Post
Isnt the Guardian meant to maintain the timeline?
Apparently not, since it invited the crew to make more journeys into history, despite the fact that they'd just screwed it up something awful due to a simple mistake. That's not exactly the way a guardian should behave. It doesn't seem to care what happens to the timeline as long as it's getting used. I think it's lonely. Or maybe just senile.
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Old March 21 2010, 11:44 PM   #6
Herbert
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

What about the death of "Rodent"? Wasn't the timeline changed by McCoy's arrival even though Edith Keeler died?
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Old March 22 2010, 01:03 AM   #7
Nerys Myk
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

Christopher wrote: View Post
UncleRogi wrote: View Post
Isnt the Guardian meant to maintain the timeline?
Apparently not, since it invited the crew to make more journeys into history, despite the fact that they'd just screwed it up something awful due to a simple mistake. That's not exactly the way a guardian should behave. It doesn't seem to care what happens to the timeline as long as it's getting used. I think it's lonely. Or maybe just senile.
Its more of a Crossing Guard of Forever/
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Old March 22 2010, 02:56 PM   #8
Therin of Andor
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think it's lonely. Or maybe just senile.
I agree. It also permitted Gray and Aleek-Om to play recent Vulcan history while Spock was in Orion's distant past.
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Old March 22 2010, 06:54 PM   #9
Herbert
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

The "Guardian of Forever" sounds much more important than "Time Vortex of the Ancients"

"Since before you sun burned hot, I have been trying to think of a cool name for myself."

In the first draft of the screenplay, the Guardians of Forever were the nine-foot tall guardians of the Time Vortex of the Ancients. In the second draft, the guardians are gone and the vortex is renamed Guardian of Forever. Although the name sounds cooler, the time vortex doesn't seem to be guarding anything.

In Ellison's first draft, the Guardians mention that death will disrupt the proper flow of time.

I also find it interesting that Bob Justman made the comment that making Edith Keeler an anti-war pacificist was directed at the then anti-Vietnam war movement. Did the writing staff believe in the "Domino Theory" and that the anti-Vietnam war movement would lead to pacificism by the United States and the triumph of communism?

Last edited by Herbert; March 22 2010 at 07:14 PM.
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Old March 22 2010, 07:19 PM   #10
ronny
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

Herbert wrote: View Post
What about the death of "Rodent"? Wasn't the timeline changed by McCoy's arrival even though Edith Keeler died?
Edith Keeler was an important person in history, Rodent wasn't. The time line was probably altered but in such a trivial way no one noticed.

It's been years since I've read Harlan Ellison's original screen play but if I remember correctly one of the differences was Kirk saw Rodent die, in fact he died saving Kirks life, and in the end is left to wonder why Edith Keeler had to die but Rodent didn't matter.
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Old March 22 2010, 07:34 PM   #11
Herbert
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Re: Crucible:McCoy

ronny wrote: View Post
Herbert wrote: View Post
What about the death of "Rodent"? Wasn't the timeline changed by McCoy's arrival even though Edith Keeler died?
Edith Keeler was an important person in history, Rodent wasn't. The time line was probably altered but in such a trivial way no one noticed.

It's been years since I've read Harlan Ellison's original screen play but if I remember correctly one of the differences was Kirk saw Rodent die, in fact he died saving Kirks life, and in the end is left to wonder why Edith Keeler had to die but Rodent didn't matter.
I see.
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