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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old March 22 2010, 10:35 AM   #16
Cheapjack
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I love the TNG 1st season, and wish the rest could have continued that upward curve.
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Old March 22 2010, 11:05 AM   #17
captcalhoun
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Enterprise is not that bad at continuity despite what many claim

Enterprise is actually a good series

Trek 09 had decent characters but the story was shite.

there's nothing wrong with women in catsuits
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Old March 22 2010, 11:17 AM   #18
DevilEyes
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

SheliakBob wrote: View Post
I don't believe that Vulcans were ever really supposed to have any emotions, mate at any time other than their 7 year Pon Farrishy thing, and were not at all nice. That was the whole point of Mr. Spock! It was his HUMAN side that made him special and sympathetic. We weren't supposed to like the Vulcans--those green-blooded alien bastards!
That's not an opinion. That's not knowing/refusing to acknowledge the facts.
(And for those, check out any interview by Trek writers such as D.C.Fontana, who stated that the Vulcans were most definitely meant to MATE ANY DAMN TIME THEY WANTED, and everything else was just a fan misinterpretation. For having "no emotions" - heck, check out the episodes themselves... Amok Time, Journey to Babel, All Our Yesterdays...)

The only thing that you're right about is that they're "not all nice". Well of course they aren't. They have violent emotions that they have to work hard to suppress! They nearly destroyed themselves in the past with wars and aggression! And they're arrogant about their "logic".

SheliakBob wrote: View Post
OH. And I loved Enterprise's take on Vulcans and thought that it was as close to the original concept as we'd seen in decades!
I liked ENT's take on Vulcans (at least since they fixed the continuity problems in season 4), but how on Vulcan can you possibly claim that it was close to the "original concept" while erroneously claiming that there original concept was that they had no emotions or could not mate outside of Pon Farr? The Vulcans in ENT were extremely emotional, and I'm not just talking about T'Pol as an obvious example (the bad guy V'les looked like he could hardly restrain himself from shouting and punching everyone in the room!) and *cough* we definitely know that T'Pol mated out of Pon Farr.

I'm also at a loss as to which post-TOS series/movie made the Vulcans look "nice" and "fluffy"?

TNG - the only Vulcans in it were Sarek, a TOS character, and Selar, who was in one episode and we barely got to know her.

TNG movies - I don't remember any significant Vulcan characters.

DS9 - the only Vulcans were 1) a Maquis terrorist who participated in blowing up a ship full of people, and tried to force a mind meld on a prisoner, 2) a Starfleet captain who was a real jerk, arrogant and bigoted, 3) a serial killer.

VOY - Tuvok was the grumpiest, most humorless Vulcan ever seen, and he had disturbing, violent impulses that could have made him a killer without his self-control. He also could use aggression and forced melds when investigating a case (Random Thoughts). Then there was also Vorik, who during Pon Farr tried to force a crewmember to have sex with him against her will.

ST09 - every Vulcan character is arrogant, bigoted and prejudiced towards humans, from the teenage bullies to the Vulcan Science Academy. Sarek only gets to be nicer after he and his son have suffered the loss of Amanda. Spock is also arrogant and stiff throughout the first half of the movie and does things like leaving Kirk behind on a planet.
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Old March 22 2010, 11:29 AM   #19
Cheapjack
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I don't think Mr Spock was a horrible person at all. I don't think he was arrogant.

He was dead cool and someone to be copied.
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Old March 22 2010, 11:31 AM   #20
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Oh and as for unpopular opinions:

ENT is actually a rather good series.
I kind of like Archer. He can be a moron, but an endearing one.
I think that Jolene Blalock's acting on ENT was excellent.
I don't really like Kirk that much, especially not in TOS (I like him a bit more in the movies).
I think City on the Edge of Forever is a bit overrated - sure, it's a good episode, but it's not OMG THE BEST EVA! etc.
I think Cause and Effect is really overrated and boring.
I don't care for the Baku in Insurrection, and I think they were annoying and selfish and that Picard was acting stupid.
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Last edited by DevilEyes; March 22 2010 at 11:56 AM.
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Old March 22 2010, 02:03 PM   #21
maneth
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Here's mine:

-Wesley isn't that bad, when you consider he lost his father at a very young age and has a clinging mother who treats him like he's 5, not 15. Besides, he is always right.
- ENT is the best Trek show of them all.
- Mostly, I can't stand Kirk.
- ST09 was a fun action flick.
- I detest Q.
- TWOK is overrated. Chiefly because I cannot stand Khan, he should be shot on sight, the arrogant bastard.
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Old March 22 2010, 02:22 PM   #22
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Cool topic. Some of mine echo others, but here goes:

1. "Far Beyond The Stars" is criminally over-rated. Watched it again at the weekend - it's OTT, melodramatic and without a proper resolution ("ooh, that's what makes it so deep and interesting!" fans may cry, but I ain't buying it).

2. I preferred DS9 before it became over-focused on the war. It lose what made it special. My fave seasons are 4-5. Seasons six and seven were disappointing.

3. TWOK is also very over-rated. It's fine, but no better or worse than "The Search For Spock" in my opinion.

4. Pulaksi is certainly a lot more interesting than Crusher! I wish she'd stayed on after season 2.

5. TNG Season 2 is a great season, that's often grouped up with season 1 in most people's minds, in the argument that "season 3 is when it became good". I think season 2 is a strong run, with several real standout episodes.

6. "Nemesis" is a decent Trek movie. It had the same strengths and weaknesses as the rest of the TNG (indeed, all Trek) movies. It wasn't the best, but definitely not the worst (TMP takes that title).

7. Rick Berman did far more good for Trek than he ever did bad. It frustrates me no end that most fanboyz forget he was there from 1987 and did an epic job of steering Star Trek.

8. "Q" is a lame character that outstayed his welcome post-"Deja Q".
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Old March 22 2010, 02:30 PM   #23
RegFan
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

ENT is my second favorite series after TNG. It should have been Voyager that was cancelled. The first two seasons are also OK and much better than the first two seasons of TNG.
Yesterday's Enterprise is a very bad episode. (that's a very unpopular opinion)
I can't stand Tasha Yar.
Wesley isn't that bad.
TOS is overrated. Don't get me wrong, I do respect it as the first series of the franchise, but it was sexist and overall so '60s. It did have a nice chemistry between Kirk, Spock and McCoy, though.
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Old March 22 2010, 02:42 PM   #24
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Post-TOS Klingons are rubbish - I much prefer the little smooth headed bastards rather than girly haired warriors harping on about 'honour' whenever it suited them.

Star Trek V is brilliant - Probably the best 'idea' of all the Star Trek films, with some brilliant dialogue (even if certain characters are short changed. Still, fuck 'em). I hate how Star Trek somehow became synonymous with 'action' after the 'failure' of V.

Series IV of Enterprise is as good as any TNG season (certainly better than I and II).

Trek XI is not the 2nd coming of Star Trek - Probably the worst story of any Star Trek. Kirk and Spock have had their day but if we're going to use them then use them and not some mirror versions.

Male Chauvinism is okay - Mini skirts FTW. Also, so what if all Uhura does is answer the phone? That's her job.

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Old March 22 2010, 03:23 PM   #25
Nardpuncher
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Yesterday's Enterprise is pretty good, but over-rated.

Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was fantastic.

Worf is not funny in any way.

The Destiny trilogy is good, but gets way too much talk on the TrekLit forum.
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Old March 22 2010, 03:35 PM   #26
lstyer
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I like TOS Klingons, even up through the movies, way more than TNG Klingons. I even like their look better. Admit it -- those stripey shirts and sparkly pants were snazzy.

I'm not sure this is unpopular, but I absolutely hate the "V" on the foreheads of TNG Romulans. It was a damn plot point in "Balance of Terror" that the Romulans looked just like Vulcans, and with that big "V" on their foreheads they look no more like Vulcans than whatever forehead alien of the week looks like Humans.

Star Trek (2009) is a fun movie to watch, but kind of sucks as a Star Trek movie. But the whole alternate timeline deal was sufficient for me to accept the changes within the context of the movie.

I don't think TV Picard and Movie Picard even seem like the same guy.

I think that by the time of TNG Gene Roddenberry was buying his own hype and Trek as a whole suffered for that.
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Old March 22 2010, 03:45 PM   #27
indolover
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

- Kirk was the worst of all the Trek Captains. Too one dimensional and lacked depth.
- Generations was a good film.
- Picard's moral nature was a weakness and not a strength of the character.
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Old March 22 2010, 03:50 PM   #28
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

lstyer wrote: View Post
I'm not sure this is unpopular, but I absolutely hate the "V" on the foreheads of TNG Romulans. It was a damn plot point in "Balance of Terror" that the Romulans looked just like Vulcans, and with that big "V" on their foreheads they look no more like Vulcans than whatever forehead alien of the week looks like Humans.
I think that's actually the popular opinion. I certainly agree.

I should also add that I'm not crazy about Q, and that I think season 2 of DS9 is great and better than season 3, possibly season 7 as well. I don't know if it's that unpopular of an opinion, but many people like to repeat the mantra "season 3 is when the show gets good".
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Old March 22 2010, 04:35 PM   #29
Shazam!
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Further to the Romulan 'V' dicussion, I'd like to add the 'bowl cut'. It's fine on Spock, but does every Vulcan/Romulan need to have the same hair style? T'Pol looked way better in Season 4 with slightly longer hair (and a change of wardrobe).
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Old March 22 2010, 04:39 PM   #30
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Trip Tucker - Died in TATV and stayed dead.
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