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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old March 28 2010, 11:52 PM   #226
DevilEyes
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

USS Renegade wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
One of the greatest things about DS9 is following the characters and their development from season 1 to season 7. It's not like TOS where you can just pick any episode out of order and watch it.
Not if you don't like the early seasons. If I had to have watched DS9 your way, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would just be saying "Yeah, I didn't like DS9, didn't really watch it." the way I do with Enterprise discussions. For some, the early seasons of DS9 are only good as a prequel.

Now, if I had today's options then, I would have watched it from the beginning to end. I would have had the DVDs to watch at my leisure. But when it was on the air, the early seasons were not good enough to keep me home whatever night it came on to watch it. The later seasons, on the other hand, were. But even that is because I am ALREADY a Trek junkie.
I might agree with that if the first 3 seasons of DS9 sucked. But they don't. Season 1 is very weak but has a few great, must-see episodes. Season 2 and 3 are good but inconsistent, with a bunch of amazing episodes, some good ones and some bad ones. Telling someone to skip them all just because of the bad episodes doesn't make sense to me.

If someone is having trouble of getting into DS9 and thinks of quitting, I'd recommend them to watch a selection of episodes from season 1 and season 2 (probably 4-5 from season 1 and 15-16 from season 2), then if they didn't get into it yet, season 3 without the bad episodes. There's no way I'd tell them to start watching DS9 from the middle, skipping episodes like Emissary, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets, Necessary Evil, The Maquis, The Wire, The Jem'Hadar/The Search, Second Skin, The House of Quark, Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast, etc.
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Old March 29 2010, 02:25 AM   #227
USS Renegade
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

^^^

I'm speaking from the experience of being one of those people, and it wouldn't have worked well for me. My opinion on the show changed, in fact I think it is the best of all the Trek series, but when I first started watching the early episodes. Bleh. Just wasn't gripping me. It's not like I didn't enjoy them after I had gotten into the show later on down the line. I also don't feel like I missed out on anything by starting in the middle, since starting in the middle was the only way to get me interested enough to watch it from the beginning.

And again, I was already a Star Trek fan and had been since I was a little kid. I still remember how seeing the refit Enterprise unveiled on the big screen in TMP took my breath away. I'm not saying the beginning of DS9 is bad, just slow. It didn't make me want to watch more. There are others like me. To me, early DS9 is great, but it is a great backstory, not a great start.
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Old March 29 2010, 10:29 AM   #228
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I dont think 'In the Pale Moonlight' was a very impressive show, id give it like three stars. I dont think it goes against Roddenberrys message, I just dont think it was particularly outstanding.
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Old March 29 2010, 10:40 AM   #229
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I have a couple more:

*I think The Inner Light is boring...

*I don't mind Season 1 and 2 of TNG....

*Star Trek fans are like fans of any other franchise...

*Best of Both Worlds wasn't all that. (If Picard did die, then we've might have had something).

*The Lakers aren't all that....(Although, I did initially get into basketball years ago noticing the Laker Girls, but...)
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Old March 29 2010, 05:07 PM   #230
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
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Old March 29 2010, 05:29 PM   #231
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
But Deep Space Nine deviated pretty far from that vision and is really no more fondly remembered than TNG, Voy or Ent.
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Old March 29 2010, 06:59 PM   #232
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

BillJ wrote: View Post
canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
But Deep Space Nine deviated pretty far from that vision and is really no more fondly remembered than TNG, Voy or Ent.
DS9 is my favorite TREK show, of the modern age. But its ratings slid the moment it came on the air.

The 1960s had Viet Nam, the cold war, civil rights, politcal assasinations...and yet a show about a 'happy' future for Earth, while not a hit at the time, went on to define the TREk franchise as more and more discovered it in re-runs. I am one who believes it was the positive view of the future, which is rare in scifi, is why it attracted such a large following.

Rob
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Old March 29 2010, 07:08 PM   #233
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
Fallible, maybe. Weak, no.
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Old March 29 2010, 08:58 PM   #234
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
Fallible, maybe. Weak, no.
People will watch ANYTHING as long as its written well. I think, in this day and age of terrorism and economic downturns, a movie/Tv show that featured characters of strong ethical/moral values, and was well written, would be a beacon for viewers. I contend, and always will, that nuBSG didn't get big ratings because it was too dark and its characters were to gray, and Caprica is falling into the same trap.

Rob
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Old March 29 2010, 10:05 PM   #235
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
Fallible, maybe. Weak, no.
People will watch ANYTHING as long as its written well. I think, in this day and age of terrorism and economic downturns, a movie/Tv show that featured characters of strong ethical/moral values, and was well written, would be a beacon for viewers. I contend, and always will, that nuBSG didn't get big ratings because it was too dark and its characters were to gray, and Caprica is falling into the same trap.

Rob
Characters can be have strong ethical/moral values, but characters should be allowed to fail, to make the wrong decisions and have those decisions affect them, much like Colonel Young in SGU.
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Old March 29 2010, 10:35 PM   #236
DevilEyes
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Modern Trek cannot survive on "Roddenberry's vision" of peace and happiness. People do not want to watch characters who don't have any flaws, they want drama and heroes that are fallible.
Fallible, maybe. Weak, no.
People will watch ANYTHING as long as its written well. I think, in this day and age of terrorism and economic downturns, a movie/Tv show that featured characters of strong ethical/moral values, and was well written, would be a beacon for viewers. I contend, and always will, that nuBSG didn't get big ratings because it was too dark and its characters were to gray, and Caprica is falling into the same trap.

Rob
Yet people watch Lost, which killed many more of its main characters than BSG did, turned some of them evil (so to speak), everyone has done bad things, everyone is screwed up and everyone makes big mistakes, and the characters are even more gray than on BSG/at least as gray as on Caprica.
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Old March 29 2010, 10:41 PM   #237
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Here's one! Star Trek '09 is the GREATEST Star Trek movie EVER!! Let the flames begin! (Sorry if someone posted this already!)
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Old March 29 2010, 11:01 PM   #238
publiusr
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Here are some opinions that might get me in trouble. I loved the DS9 episode where some survivors of a runabout crash lived like the Baku (or Nav'i with blue paint--uh-oh, I think Cameron was watching Insurrection). Here they were in harmony with nature (ecology big with STIV). Yet the other side of the story was given.

Technophobia was rightly lambasted--and as the heros beamed away we saw two children--living as green as could be--wearing rags, barefoot--and a very bleak existance. Man Trap was similar. The doctor wanted to save this lifeform (it could have been cloned) and it didn't matter how many people had to die in its wake.
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Old March 29 2010, 11:03 PM   #239
M
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

publiusr wrote: View Post
Here are some opinions that might get me in trouble. I loved the DS9 episode where some survivors of a runabout crash lived like the Baku (or Nav'i with blue paint--uh-oh, I think Cameron was watching Insurrection). Here they were in harmony with nature (ecology big with STIV). Yet the other side of the story was given.
I love Paradise!
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Old March 29 2010, 11:33 PM   #240
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
Here are some opinions that might get me in trouble. I loved the DS9 episode where some survivors of a runabout crash lived like the Baku (or Nav'i with blue paint--uh-oh, I think Cameron was watching Insurrection). Here they were in harmony with nature (ecology big with STIV). Yet the other side of the story was given.
I love Paradise!
Me too.
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