TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

[RandyS]

indolover wrote:

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First Contact, IMO, was the best Trek film ever, period. And certainly the best TNG film.

I'm not sure I agree with the first sentence, but I definately agree with the second.

[Tosk]

It does make me sad sometimes that we'll never see any more TNG stories. I am no big Nemesis hater, but it's a shame TNG couldn't have finished on a real high point. TOS got ST6, which I love. A great finale. TNG got a film masquerading as the final adventure without being a satisfying sendoff in any meaningful way.

[C.E. Evans]

TOS lasted three seasons and six movies...TNG lasted seven seasons and four movies. There's probably a balance in there somewhere.

I do tend to think that TNG didn't translate that well to the big screen and that the producers giving in to Patrick Stewart's demand for Picard to be more of an action hero didn't really help matters. I understand that there is only so much you can do in a two-hour action film, but I still kind of think TNG worked better as a TV series. Nemesis was simply putting an end to something that really wasn't working as well as it did on the small screen, IMO.

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I'm sorry, but if Nemesis was the best they could do for a TNG movie, I don't want to see TNG ever again on the big screen. It was simply (for me) THAT bad. That's not to say that I really like Abrams' Trek, but I do agree that a reboot was needed, even if it was completey botched. TNG really needs a reboot if we ever want to see it again.

I don't think I'll be watching anymore Trek movies until they move on to whatever follows this incarnation. That's OK, because there's plenty of hours of footage for me to enjoy on DVD.

The only sad part is, I don't see anyone ever rebooting 24th century Trek. They'll probably just keep rebooting TOS over and over again until a reboot can't even make it relevant anymore.

[GalaxyX]

The TNG movies made the huge mistake of not being FUN, which the exception of First Contact.

The problem is that TPTB, whether that is Berman/Braga, or whoever it was, confused "fun" with slapstick comedy, which is what we got in every TNG movie except Nemesis. Yet these bouts of comedic slapstick are juxtapositioned with serious scenes that are supposed to be emotional of a deeper level, like the death of Kirk. I want to strangle someone everytime I remember that Kirk died, and in the next scene, Data's cat is alive, and Data is crying, because you know, the furball is alive (all playing to the emotion chip that gave us "Mr. Tricorder").

Star Trek 2009 admittedly had huge flaws (The complete destruction of Vulcan for one), but for the average movie goer, it was FUN. The TOS movies (with the possible exception of TMP) were all FUN.

[T'Cal]

No doubt First Contact was the best of the lot but I wish TNG had remained on TV. FC could've been a great MFTV movie or even a miniseries. After AGT, I wish TNG had returned as an 8-12 hour annual miniseries that included characters from DS9 and VOY. Ensemble Trek (TNG, DS9, VOY, & ENT) work much better on the small screen where there is time to tell a story that involves more than two or three good guys and a bad guy. I would've left TOS with Kirk, Spock & Bones at the theatre. TNG movies just weren't as good as or were no better than a majority of its TV episodes.

[Jonesy]

Mr Troi wrote:

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I think what we really missed out on was a worthy Star Trek The Next Generation film. There was more evidence of ambition and creativity in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise than in all of the four films combined. They should have been able to transport the drama and the intelligence of the series into a two and a half hour long space epic.

Well said. While I think that some of the people involved in the Next Gen. films did the best job that they could, under the circumstances, I still find all of the films to be lacking. Even the often-mentioned First Contact, which while having a great soundtrack, could have been much more.

I still think that Star Trek, at the point that the TNG films were being produced, was completely straightjacketed as a huge and successful franchise and cash-cow. And one where everything had to be micro-managed, most notably the scripts.

[M-Red]

By and large, the first two entries are enjoyable to me. They have their problems, but so did the TOS movies.


TNG needed to take a risk after FC. Make the third film a cliffhanger. Have some foresight and some confidence and set up a trilogy so TNG and 24th century Trek could go out with a bang.


Drop the Action Picard stuff and craft a smart story in which JLP acts like JLP. Give Riker the Titan command after FC. Put Worf back on DS9 and incorporate the broader Trek universe. Give us a complex villain with many shades of grey....let the baddies "win" the first movie ala "BoBW" or Empire Strikes Back. Something. Mix it up. Just be creative and take a chance with some innovative concepts. The TOS movie franchise did just that -- more than once. And it usually paid off for them.


TNG deserved that too and it seemed like TPTB became cautious and content....and the movie franchise went stale. They needed to be innovative following the success of First Contact. Instead, it seemed like just settled for an elaborate two-part episode and then mailed it in with the last one.


It's a shame, especially since TNG is perhaps the most successful sci-fi TV series of all time. So yes, we missed out (past tense) because that ship has sailed and we're definitely in JJ-Trek mode now.

[billcosby]

GalaxyX wrote:

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The TNG movies made the huge mistake of not being FUN, which the exception of First Contact.

I agree and I must also note that Insurrection at least made the effort of trying to be fun.

But it actually wasn't that much fun. It was kind of preachy and heavy handed at times.

[T'Cal]

Fun?? FUN?? Didn't you like Data's:

• Mr. Tricorder
• ...but the Ferengi in the Gorilla suit has to go.
• Humor! I love it!
• Lifeforms, you tiny little lifeforms...
• No problem!
• Oh shit!
• ...and his lip should curl...
• A pimple, sir.
• Have you noticed how your boobs...
• Never saw the sun shining so bright...
• Why does the big man have a furry face?
• Why? Why? Why?
• Move, puny human animal!

How about Worf's wacky lines:

• (falling into freezing cold water and growling)
• It is a gorch!
• Sir! I am experiencing aggressive tendencies!
• Romulan Ale should be illegal.
• Irving Berlin!
• (bumping his head as he awoke from oversleeping)
• Captain, I do not think it is appropriate for a Starfleet officer to appear ...naked.

Humor is a difficult concept for Trek to handle successfully. Each of the movies would've benefitted greatly if they hadn't tried so hard to be funny. Data and Worf are among the richest characters in all of Trek yet in the movies Worf the great Klingon warrior was turned into a buffoon and Data the super intelligent android was made out to be a clown. Awkward moments and fish out of water experiences can be funny but these lines were painful to hear.

[M'rk, son of Mogh]

^^^
I don't think Worf's lines were out of character at all.
The way he handled Molly's birth, prune juice the warrior's drink, he is not a merry man, Worf was often about the one-liners. Some just happened to work better than others, but it definitely was part of his character.

[T'Cal]

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote:

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^^^
I don't think Worf's lines were out of character at all.
The way he handled Molly's birth, prune juice the warrior's drink, he is not a merry man, Worf was often about the one-liners. Some just happened to work better than others, but it definitely was part of his character.

On the TV show it was done on occasion and it worked partly because of that. In the movies it was overdone and less successful.

[Jonesy]

billcosby wrote:

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Trek had to change to survive.

But that is part of the problem. Trek - and TNG in particular - was not allowed to change or take risks, because it was a hit. Plain and simple. It was a Paramount cash-cow. The powers-that-be made sure it rode enough of a safe line.

Generations and Insurrection were fraught with studio influence and meddling. Nemesis was a pile of garbage helmed by a really bad director and equally bad screenwriter. First Contact is the only one of the four films that ended up being solid enough to enjoy and appreciate as a decent film. But that is at least partly due to the fact that the "baddie" was the Borg - a good choice but also a fairly safe choice for all involved in the films to choose.

[Jonesy]

M-Red wrote:

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TNG needed to take a risk after FC. Make the third film a cliffhanger. Have some foresight and some confidence and set up a trilogy so TNG and 24th century Trek could go out with a bang.

If Patrick Stewart had not interfered (and insisted on a "light" third TNG film) we may have had Michael Pillers initial draft for Insurrection, rather than the forgettable film that we were handed.

[JarodRussell]

Are swollen hands, Wiktor, Wiktor and Pegg in a pipe really better than Mr. Tricorder?

And it was actually Piller himself who thought that First Contact was too dark and wanted to do a lighter movie, and it was Berman who didn't like his first draft. And the problem of the first draft was essentially that the characters got very young in it, so that they would have needed to recast Picard, Riker & Co.

And Stewart didn't want to turn Picard into an action hero, he simply wanted to get rid of the "Captain stays on the bridge during missions" thing.