TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

March 8 2010, 08:44 PM

I don't know where to put this so...here until it gets moved or whatever.

After replying to a post in Misc. Thinking about GEN...I was thinking are we missing out not having more with these characters & the cast??? I know not all the films are the best...but even combined with characters from DS9 & VOY...I feel something special is now missing from the ST universe with no films centered around this period.

I still haven't seen ST 2009...I am sure it is good however...I feel something is missing, something magical.

March 8 2010, 11:49 PM

I think what we really missed out on was a worthy Star Trek The Next Generation film. There was more evidence of ambition and creativity in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise than in all of the four films combined. They should have been able to transport the drama and the intelligence of the series into a two and a half hour long space epic. Like a science fiction Dark Knight.
For example, imagine a cinematic Best Of Both Worlds. You have a wonderful story that can be told with a much greater budget and much more time. You would have had more time with Locutus, you would have seen Wolf 359. Then the next film could have been a direct sequel - a reworking of First Contact. At the end of the Best Of Both Worlds film you see the cube blowing up but releasing a small vessel and Captain Riker following it back with the Enterprise and Picard's life is in the balance in surgery etc. It would have kicked the absolute crap out of The Empire Strikes Back. It goes without saying that there would be no Borg Queen or Android sex nonsense in First Contact and that the film would actually be about something.
I know they couldn't have actually done this because of continuity etc. The point is that the films actually lacked the scope of the most dramatic episodes in the series and that really baffled me.
By the way, Star Trek 2009 was a terrible film.
What I hope for is a new series that would be a true successor to The Next Generation. It would be set a generation after Picard's.

indolover · March 9 2010, 12:48 AM

First Contact, IMO, was the best Trek film ever, period. And certainly the best TNG film.

I feel the TNG films were a disappointment due to bad writing, and poor concepts. Insurrection really should have been a Dominion War story, and the argument that the average Joe doesn't know the Dominion doesn't make sense to me. the average Joe doesn't know the Romulans, yet Nemesis and Star Trek 2009 were made with that race in central prominence. Most persons who don't follow Star Trek couldn't give a damn about Trek species or the Trek universe.

Worf could have been on a mission to protect a colony, the colony sent out a distress call, the Enterprise-E answered, and the old crew together defeated a Founder/Vorta/Jem Hadar squad. It need not have been as intense as First Contact (I agree with Sir Patrick and other cast in saying that First Contact was intense), but with a better initial concept the ninth Trek film could have been a good one.

I personally would like to see TNG (or even DS9) in some kind of format again, even if it were made for TV movies. The problem would be getting Data back (or at least getting some way for Brent Spiner to play him) but anything is possible.

Withers · March 9 2010, 01:36 AM

First Contact was the only Next Generation era film that felt worthy of being a movie. The others, as has been stated many times, felt more like episodes with extremely high budgets and overtly long running times.

I think the era, if not specifically just TNG, should have gotten two more films... or should get two more films. nuTrek or Abrams' film or whatever you want to call it was not terrible (by comparison to any of the other 10 films.) What annoys me about it is that it essentially gave the TOS characters a seventh film. They were great characters and I enjoyed them but... enough already. They weren't that much better (some would say they weren't at all better) than the casts that came later.

The logistics of making the decision to reboot from the beginning are obvious and terms for a good solid debate. I grasp the concept of what will make money and what won't. I grasp the concept that no one would fund a DS9 movie (certainly no one would fund a Voyager movie.) From a story tellers point of view as opposed to the view of just someone trying to make money I think a lot of potential is lost when the "prime" universe and the TNG-era stuff gets discarded in favor of resurrecting the TOS era for another go round.

-Withers-

billcosby · March 9 2010, 01:55 AM

Trek had to change to survive.

Trek changed = Trek will survive. This means good things for people who want to see fresh things and new ideas.

For those of us basking in the glory of the past, there are myrid hours of Trek on DVDs to enjoy.

Something for everyone.

March 9 2010, 02:04 AM

indolover wrote:

First Contact, IMO, was the best Trek film ever, period. And certainly the best TNG film.

We will just have to agree to disagree on that.

I don't think you can say that The Next Generation was discarded by that utter abomination last summer. Star Trek 90210 was just a different version of Star Trek. There are probably more inconsistencies in the Star Trek canon than there are in the bible so I've always just thought of TNG and DS9, Voyager and Enterprise (whenever I watch them) as seperate shows with no substantial relationship between them. For example, it is inconceivable that Enterprise could have been a true prequel to TOS and TNG. When I watch Q Who and we're seeing the Borg for the first time - it is the first time for me. I personally disregard all that Enterprise crap. There is no canon for me. I'll take TOS and TNG, Star Trek 1 - 10 but everything else just didn't happen for me.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, as a movie series, TNG has well and truly run its course. I'd say one of the good things about Nemesis is that it left us with Picard still with the Enterprise and still exploring the galaxy and thats how I'd like to remember him.

Mojochi · March 9 2010, 07:41 AM

I think all that we're really missing out on, is the continued saga of a universe that took 40 years, & over 1,500 hours of footage to develop. Inconsistencies & all, it was a pretty special thing to witness that lengthy an endeavor, in one ongoing fantasy realm. So special, that a countless slew of novelizations have been rendered from it

That's seemingly over now, unless by some miracle it's readdressed, & I think it was rather irreverent to completely abandon it, & those that built it, and supported it. I mean one reboots Batman, Superman, & James Bond franchises, because there's very little to rehash. Some characters, some villains, & a bit of back story. 40 years of Trek amounts to a bit more than that

To reboot Star Trek is to turn your back on 40 years of creative effort toward a story that spans 4 centuries. That's truly a special thing to be lost, especially with how they did it, which essentially was to use time travel to unwrite it. I can see how some people could think that was a slap in the face, or even a kick in the nuts

Having said all that, the reboot, as a movie unto itself, wasn't that bad. It was alright. Some decent performances, some entertainment, big budget blah blah blah. Made a killing, will get a few sequels. Not much more you can ask for in today's cinematic environment, but the saga it ain't

billcosby · March 9 2010, 05:05 PM

I think if continuity is more important than the fundamentals of Trek, then as a viewer you're missing the point.

I like starship design continuity too, but to not enjoy a movie because of it seems idiotic.

Picard and crew (TNG by far being my favorite) had more than their fair share of the screen.

DBall · March 9 2010, 06:22 PM

I personally would have loved to see a DS9 movie come out after the TNG movies... but due to it not being as popular, that didn't happen (on an entirely different rant, DS9 was my favorite one... great characters, some gritty darkness, incredible arcs... I digress).

As for the ST09 movie, I remember seeing an interview with JJ where he said something like, "I'm not really too concerned with the Trek fans, they will come regardless because it's a Star Trek Movie... I'm making this for the people who don't know any of the back story, to introduce it to new people". I wish I could find that video interview to reference it, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw it. That kinda turned me off to it before I watched it, and when I saw it, I really wasn't blown away and there were some things I really didn't like about it.

That being said, my wife, who's really not into Trek at all LOVED it... as did many other people who never really cared for Trek. JJ succeeded in what was his overall mission... he made Trek relevant for people who just didn't pay it any attention before.

Oh well... at this point I'm pretty starved for new Trek, so it'll do, but I'd much rather see something wholly fresh and new as opposed to a rehashing of the past.

Lor'Vela · March 10 2010, 02:38 AM

I'm not entire too sure that the TNG characters were meant for the big-screen, given the way they were defined throughout the show. They all seemed out of character in the movies with perhaps the exception of Generations. I'm guessing TPTB required their cast to be action heroes in the films and it just went completely against their characters. When I see First Contact or Insurrection, for example, I just don't see the Picard character I knew on the show... what with him shooting his phaser rifle all the time, performing stunts and leading away missions.

Dare I say it, I think DS9 might be better suited for the big screen, but given the way DS9 ended, that might have been difficult.

DGCatAniSiri · March 10 2010, 08:02 AM

indolover wrote:

Worf could have been on a mission to protect a colony, the colony sent out a distress call, the Enterprise-E answered, and the old crew together defeated a Founder/Vorta/Jem Hadar squad. It need not have been as intense as First Contact (I agree with Sir Patrick and other cast in saying that First Contact was intense), but with a better initial concept the ninth Trek film could have been a good one.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Insurrection should have been about the liberation of Betazed from the Dominion and that they'd have borrowed Worf and the Defiant to help (and maybe even O'Brien). Basically, I'd want to swap the novel 'The Battle For Betazed' for the story of Insurrection. Especially since it'd give TROI a chance to shine. 'Face of the Enemy' showed there were things Troi could do beyond just state the obvious, it'd be nice to see that side of Troi again.

Admiral_Young · March 12 2010, 08:27 PM

I think one of the main problems of the TNG films was that the writers seem to be forced to focus on Picard and Data as main focal points. Each movie we saw the two of them were given the meat and potatoes story lines while the rest of the cast was largely ignored and Moore and Braga at least in their audio commentaries stated they regretted not giving the rest of the cast more to do. In a film everything has to be condensed while you have a lot more freedom in a television series to tell impact full stories using all the characters. I agree that First Contact FEELS like a true TNG story, Generations is maybe the next film that comes close but falls flat because of the goofy nexus storyline and having to interegate the two casts together. Insurrection I don't mind as much since viewing multiple viewings of it and I agree it should have been a Dominion War story. Will mentions Katacel White in his research into the Son'a and Baku maybe you could have had the Dominion attempt to occupy the Baku. Worf is on load from Deep Space Nine due to his experience with dealing with them and you could have a subplot of him dealing with Jadiza's death (which was written into an early draft where Captain Picard gives him condolences on her death). You could still have the Deanna and Troi romance even though in typical Trek fashion it comes out of no where and hits us over the head.

Admiral Buzzkill · March 12 2010, 08:50 PM

No.

LitmusDragon · March 13 2010, 12:32 AM

No to be cheeky, but

"All good things must come to an end"

CoveTom · March 15 2010, 06:15 PM

I feel as though we -definitely- missed out on the potential for something great with the TNG movies. While I don't loathe the TNG films -- well, with the exception of Nemesis -- I do feel that they were lost potential. Whether or not you could do another TNG movie today and make it work, I dunno, but I'd sure like to see them try.

March 8 2010, 08:44 PM	#1
Jetfire Guest	TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I don't know where to put this so...here until it gets moved or whatever. After replying to a post in Misc. Thinking about GEN...I was thinking are we missing out not having more with these characters & the cast??? I know not all the films are the best...but even combined with characters from DS9 & VOY...I feel something special is now missing from the ST universe with no films centered around this period. I still haven't seen ST 2009...I am sure it is good however...I feel something is missing, something magical.

March 8 2010, 11:49 PM	#2
Mr Troi Guest	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I think what we really missed out on was a worthy Star Trek The Next Generation film. There was more evidence of ambition and creativity in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise than in all of the four films combined. They should have been able to transport the drama and the intelligence of the series into a two and a half hour long space epic. Like a science fiction Dark Knight. For example, imagine a cinematic Best Of Both Worlds. You have a wonderful story that can be told with a much greater budget and much more time. You would have had more time with Locutus, you would have seen Wolf 359. Then the next film could have been a direct sequel - a reworking of First Contact. At the end of the Best Of Both Worlds film you see the cube blowing up but releasing a small vessel and Captain Riker following it back with the Enterprise and Picard's life is in the balance in surgery etc. It would have kicked the absolute crap out of The Empire Strikes Back. It goes without saying that there would be no Borg Queen or Android sex nonsense in First Contact and that the film would actually be about something. I know they couldn't have actually done this because of continuity etc. The point is that the films actually lacked the scope of the most dramatic episodes in the series and that really baffled me. By the way, Star Trek 2009 was a terrible film. What I hope for is a new series that would be a true successor to The Next Generation. It would be set a generation after Picard's.

March 9 2010, 12:48 AM	#3
indolover Fleet Captain	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? First Contact, IMO, was the best Trek film ever, period. And certainly the best TNG film. I feel the TNG films were a disappointment due to bad writing, and poor concepts. Insurrection really should have been a Dominion War story, and the argument that the average Joe doesn't know the Dominion doesn't make sense to me. the average Joe doesn't know the Romulans, yet Nemesis and Star Trek 2009 were made with that race in central prominence. Most persons who don't follow Star Trek couldn't give a damn about Trek species or the Trek universe. Worf could have been on a mission to protect a colony, the colony sent out a distress call, the Enterprise-E answered, and the old crew together defeated a Founder/Vorta/Jem Hadar squad. It need not have been as intense as First Contact (I agree with Sir Patrick and other cast in saying that First Contact was intense), but with a better initial concept the ninth Trek film could have been a good one. I personally would like to see TNG (or even DS9) in some kind of format again, even if it were made for TV movies. The problem would be getting Data back (or at least getting some way for Brent Spiner to play him) but anything is possible.

March 9 2010, 01:36 AM	#4
Withers Captain Location: On a boat	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? First Contact was the only Next Generation era film that felt worthy of being a movie. The others, as has been stated many times, felt more like episodes with extremely high budgets and overtly long running times. I think the era, if not specifically just TNG, should have gotten two more films... or should get two more films. nuTrek or Abrams' film or whatever you want to call it was not terrible (by comparison to any of the other 10 films.) What annoys me about it is that it essentially gave the TOS characters a seventh film. They were great characters and I enjoyed them but... enough already. They weren't that much better (some would say they weren't at all better) than the casts that came later. The logistics of making the decision to reboot from the beginning are obvious and terms for a good solid debate. I grasp the concept of what will make money and what won't. I grasp the concept that no one would fund a DS9 movie (certainly no one would fund a Voyager movie.) From a story tellers point of view as opposed to the view of just someone trying to make money I think a lot of potential is lost when the "prime" universe and the TNG-era stuff gets discarded in favor of resurrecting the TOS era for another go round. -Withers-

March 9 2010, 01:55 AM	#5
billcosby Commodore Location: billcosby	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? Trek had to change to survive. Trek changed = Trek will survive. This means good things for people who want to see fresh things and new ideas. For those of us basking in the glory of the past, there are myrid hours of Trek on DVDs to enjoy. Something for everyone. __________________ My 1st Edition TrekCCG virtual expansion: http://billcosbytrekccg.blogspot.com/

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March 9 2010, 07:41 AM	#7
Mojochi Fleet Captain	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I think all that we're really missing out on, is the continued saga of a universe that took 40 years, & over 1,500 hours of footage to develop. Inconsistencies & all, it was a pretty special thing to witness that lengthy an endeavor, in one ongoing fantasy realm. So special, that a countless slew of novelizations have been rendered from it That's seemingly over now, unless by some miracle it's readdressed, & I think it was rather irreverent to completely abandon it, & those that built it, and supported it. I mean one reboots Batman, Superman, & James Bond franchises, because there's very little to rehash. Some characters, some villains, & a bit of back story. 40 years of Trek amounts to a bit more than that To reboot Star Trek is to turn your back on 40 years of creative effort toward a story that spans 4 centuries. That's truly a special thing to be lost, especially with how they did it, which essentially was to use time travel to unwrite it. I can see how some people could think that was a slap in the face, or even a kick in the nuts Having said all that, the reboot, as a movie unto itself, wasn't that bad. It was alright. Some decent performances, some entertainment, big budget blah blah blah. Made a killing, will get a few sequels. Not much more you can ask for in today's cinematic environment, but the saga it ain't

March 9 2010, 05:05 PM	#8
billcosby Commodore Location: billcosby	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I think if continuity is more important than the fundamentals of Trek, then as a viewer you're missing the point. I like starship design continuity too, but to not enjoy a movie because of it seems idiotic. Picard and crew (TNG by far being my favorite) had more than their fair share of the screen. __________________ My 1st Edition TrekCCG virtual expansion: http://billcosbytrekccg.blogspot.com/

March 9 2010, 06:22 PM	#9
DBall Lieutenant Junior Grade Location: Rochester, NY	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I personally would have loved to see a DS9 movie come out after the TNG movies... but due to it not being as popular, that didn't happen (on an entirely different rant, DS9 was my favorite one... great characters, some gritty darkness, incredible arcs... I digress). As for the ST09 movie, I remember seeing an interview with JJ where he said something like, "I'm not really too concerned with the Trek fans, they will come regardless because it's a Star Trek Movie... I'm making this for the people who don't know any of the back story, to introduce it to new people". I wish I could find that video interview to reference it, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw it. That kinda turned me off to it before I watched it, and when I saw it, I really wasn't blown away and there were some things I really didn't like about it. That being said, my wife, who's really not into Trek at all LOVED it... as did many other people who never really cared for Trek. JJ succeeded in what was his overall mission... he made Trek relevant for people who just didn't pay it any attention before. Oh well... at this point I'm pretty starved for new Trek, so it'll do, but I'd much rather see something wholly fresh and new as opposed to a rehashing of the past. __________________ --------Dan--------- My Music \| My Videos

March 10 2010, 02:38 AM	#10
Lor'Vela Captain Location: Wherever I happen to be.	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I'm not entire too sure that the TNG characters were meant for the big-screen, given the way they were defined throughout the show. They all seemed out of character in the movies with perhaps the exception of Generations. I'm guessing TPTB required their cast to be action heroes in the films and it just went completely against their characters. When I see First Contact or Insurrection, for example, I just don't see the Picard character I knew on the show... what with him shooting his phaser rifle all the time, performing stunts and leading away missions. Dare I say it, I think DS9 might be better suited for the big screen, but given the way DS9 ended, that might have been difficult. __________________ "You would make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck?! I have no time for such nonsense." -- Napoleon, commenting on Fulton's Steamship

March 12 2010, 08:27 PM	#12
Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Location: Metropolis	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I think one of the main problems of the TNG films was that the writers seem to be forced to focus on Picard and Data as main focal points. Each movie we saw the two of them were given the meat and potatoes story lines while the rest of the cast was largely ignored and Moore and Braga at least in their audio commentaries stated they regretted not giving the rest of the cast more to do. In a film everything has to be condensed while you have a lot more freedom in a television series to tell impact full stories using all the characters. I agree that First Contact FEELS like a true TNG story, Generations is maybe the next film that comes close but falls flat because of the goofy nexus storyline and having to interegate the two casts together. Insurrection I don't mind as much since viewing multiple viewings of it and I agree it should have been a Dominion War story. Will mentions Katacel White in his research into the Son'a and Baku maybe you could have had the Dominion attempt to occupy the Baku. Worf is on load from Deep Space Nine due to his experience with dealing with them and you could have a subplot of him dealing with Jadiza's death (which was written into an early draft where Captain Picard gives him condolences on her death). You could still have the Deanna and Troi romance even though in typical Trek fashion it comes out of no where and hits us over the head. __________________ Admiral Young Chief of Operations Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.

March 12 2010, 08:50 PM	#13
Admiral Buzzkill The Man Location: Defying Gravity	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? No. __________________ I had steak and a loaded baked potato for dinner on Sunday. As a steak I enjoyed it a lot, but as macaroni and cheese I thought it was disappointing.

March 13 2010, 12:32 AM	#14
LitmusDragon Commodore Location: The Barmuda Triangle	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? No to be cheeky, but "All good things must come to an end" __________________ Check out my photos of Oregon on Facebook Linguiphiles, unite!

March 15 2010, 06:15 PM	#15
CoveTom Rear Admiral Location: CoveTom	Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out??? I feel as though we -definitely- missed out on the potential for something great with the TNG movies. While I don't loathe the TNG films -- well, with the exception of Nemesis -- I do feel that they were lost potential. Whether or not you could do another TNG movie today and make it work, I dunno, but I'd sure like to see them try.