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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old April 3 2010, 07:49 PM   #1
Herbert
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Aft torpedo tubes

I was curious why in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the Klingon K't'inga-class battlecruisers have an aft photon torpedo tube, while the refit USS Enterprise does not have an aft torpedo tube or dual tubes?

Is there a reason why Matt Jefferies, Mike Minor, or Andrew Probert never placed aft firing tubes on the Enterprise refit design? Were aft tubes considered cowardly and not included in the design? Like Gene Roddenberry's objection to Starfleet ships using cloaking devices?

Later Federation starship designs have an aft firing tube or tubes. For example, USS Reliant had two fore tubes and two aft tubes in the roll-bar pod.

Last edited by Herbert; April 3 2010 at 08:04 PM.
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Old April 3 2010, 08:26 PM   #2
nx1701g
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

I would assume that Klingon ships would have them because of their warlike nature. It gives them more avenues to attack from. As for the Federation ships not having them, maybe Federation Photons are more capable and can track even ships behind them?
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Old April 3 2010, 09:36 PM   #3
Herbert
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

^If it was a question of warlike nature, then I would expect that Roddenberry, or someone else, would have objected to the rear torpedo tube on the NCC-1701-D.

Though my question concerns the refit. I would accept that aft tubes never occurred to them, but it does seem like a deliberate design choice considering the decision to put them in the Klingon battle cruiser.
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Old April 3 2010, 09:44 PM   #4
blssdwlf
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

We've seen that in The Changeling, the Enterprise had no trouble hitting a tiny object with a photon torpedo "bearing 123mk18 range 90,000km" which is definitely not in front of them (but not exactly behind them either).

The TOS Enterprise had 6 forward tubes, the TMP Enterprise has 2 forward tubes. I would've liked to see an aft tube on the TMP Enterprise, but there doesn't look like any obvious locations for it...

The Enterprise episode Defiant? had a rear tube on the Connie but that's alternate universe territory so it may or may not be on any of the TOS Connies...
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Old April 3 2010, 10:21 PM   #5
Marten
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

Enterprise NX-01 had aft torpedoes.
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Old April 3 2010, 10:34 PM   #6
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

I don't know why they didn't put it there, but considering you can launch a guided missile, make it do a sharp turn, do a 180 and hit a target behind it, I don't see why it's a big impediment to have just forward tubes.
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Old April 3 2010, 11:34 PM   #7
caisson2delta
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
I don't know why they didn't put it there, but considering you can launch a guided missile, make it do a sharp turn, do a 180 and hit a target behind it, I don't see why it's a big impediment to have just forward tubes.
Agreed. It seems like the Federation has the technology for this. The only real reason I can see them needing a rear tube is just for having additional tubes.
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Old April 3 2010, 11:37 PM   #8
Captain Robert April
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

The Defiant had aft torpedoes and phasers. A tube on either side of the fantail would accommodate that setup nicely. And there's chatter in "Balance of Terror" about aft and midship weapons, so the Enterprise had something that could cover the aft area of the ship.
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Old April 4 2010, 03:14 AM   #9
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

Herbert wrote: View Post
I was curious why in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the Klingon K't'inga-class battlecruisers have an aft photon torpedo tube, while the refit USS Enterprise does not have an aft torpedo tube or dual tubes?
I imagine it's a little like how the Los Angeles class submarines have no aft torpedo tubes or why the P-51 Mustang was never equipped with a tailgun. It's probably designed to fire its primary weapons while FACING its target and intentionally avoids letting enemies at their back anyway.

Later Federation starship designs have an aft firing tube or tubes. For example, USS Reliant had two fore tubes and two aft tubes in the roll-bar pod.
Reliant also had somewhat heavier phaser armament, larger shuttle bays, and a suspicious lack of a navigational deflector. It's probably more of an AC-130 to Enterprise's B-52.
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Old April 4 2010, 08:07 AM   #10
Mytran
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

By DS9, practically every ship had a glowy nav deflector, and Defiant is no different:

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Old April 4 2010, 08:44 AM   #11
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

The Klingons have aft torpedoes so that they can fire while running away, Starfleet doesn't run away.

The nuEnterprise has two tubes under the fantail on the center line. Cowards.
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Old April 4 2010, 08:06 PM   #12
Albertese
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
...

The TOS Enterprise had 6 forward tubes, the TMP Enterprise has 2 forward tubes. I would've liked to see an aft tube on the TMP Enterprise, but there doesn't look like any obvious locations for it...
We know the TOS Enterprise had tubes 2, 4, and 6, implying that there are also a 1, 3, and 5. But we are not told what arc they face nor are we told if there are tubes 7, 8, or 9. The Enterprise may well have had aft torpedoes. We are never explicitly told otherwise.

The Enterprise episode Defiant? had a rear tube on the Connie but that's alternate universe territory so it may or may not be on any of the TOS Connies...
Not really. The Defiant was native to the TOS episode "The Tholian Web." Granted it found its way into an alternate reality, the Mirror Universe, but that's not where it started. And some may argue that the whole of Star Trek: Enterprise was set in an alternate timeline caused by the events of Star Trek: First Contact, There's no reason to assume that the Defiant was radically different compared to the TOS [/i]Enterprise[/i]. So, again, there may well have been aft arc torpedos on the TOS E.

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Old April 4 2010, 09:32 PM   #13
blssdwlf
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

Albertese wrote: View Post

We know the TOS Enterprise had tubes 2, 4, and 6, implying that there are also a 1, 3, and 5. But we are not told what arc they face nor are we told if there are tubes 7, 8, or 9. The Enterprise may well have had aft torpedoes. We are never explicitly told otherwise.
Sure, a bit of clarification then. The TOS Enterprise had 6 known forward tubes. All 6 were fired in Elaan of Troyius.
The dialogue and the FX implies that all 6 tubes were used:

KIRK: Negative. His sensors will pick up our power increase. The more helpless he thinks we are, the closer he'll come. As he passes, I want to cut in warp drive. We'll pivot at warp two and bring all tubes to bear.
Of course it could also mean only all facing tubes to bear. However the one time they should have fired from an aft tube (The Changeling) they did not - which would imply the TOS Enterprise did not have any aft tube(s) since all 6 that were ever mentioned got used in Elaan of Troyius.

Albertese wrote: View Post
The Enterprise episode Defiant? had a rear tube on the Connie but that's alternate universe territory so it may or may not be on any of the TOS Connies...
Not really. The Defiant was native to the TOS episode "The Tholian Web." Granted it found its way into an alternate reality, the Mirror Universe, but that's not where it started. And some may argue that the whole of Star Trek: Enterprise was set in an alternate timeline caused by the events of Star Trek: First Contact, There's no reason to assume that the Defiant was radically different compared to the TOS [/i]Enterprise[/i]. So, again, there may well have been aft arc torpedos on the TOS E.
Actually there is reason to consider the Defiant at least different from the Enterprise. As pointed out above, the one time (if not others) where the Enterprise would've fired out of an aft tube, it did not. Plus, there has not been a mention of an aft torpedo tube during the entire run of TOS (and plus the refit E does not sport an aft tube either) which points to an Enterprise that most likely did not have an aft tube

As far as the TOS Defiant goes, it could've had an aft tube in TOS as it was never specified either way, although the Enterprise-A (considering it is a new build, or refit of another Connie) also does not have an aft tube so it would seem that any Connies during TOS that might have had an aft tube, did not retain it when refitted or newly built into the movie version.

Funny you should suggest that the Defiant is native to the TOS The Tholian Web. Considering that the interphase space connected to multiple universes how could you be sure that the Defiant that appears in the ENT Mirror series is really the one from the TOS series? It could be from the ENT future universe (and thus be slightly different) given all the Temporal Cold war stuff that happened. So, for me at least, I'm a bit skeptical on the ENT version of the Defiant.

If you are aware of a TOS or TFS moment (not TNG+) where the TOS E had an indicated use of an aft tube or dialogue of such, I'm all ears.
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Old April 4 2010, 09:41 PM   #14
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Actually there is reason to consider the Defiant at least different from the Enterprise. As pointed out above, the one time (if not others) where the Enterprise would've fired out of an aft tube, it did not. Plus, there has not been a mention of an aft torpedo tube during the entire run of TOS (and plus the refit E does not sport an aft tube either) which points to an Enterprise that most likely did not have an aft tube
There's only so much you can read into the actual depictions in TOS, since 90% of all weapon FX were recycled stock footage. Taken this literally, it would imply the TOS ship wasn't even equipped with aft phasers.
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Old April 4 2010, 09:48 PM   #15
blssdwlf
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Re: Aft torpedo tubes

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Actually there is reason to consider the Defiant at least different from the Enterprise. As pointed out above, the one time (if not others) where the Enterprise would've fired out of an aft tube, it did not. Plus, there has not been a mention of an aft torpedo tube during the entire run of TOS (and plus the refit E does not sport an aft tube either) which points to an Enterprise that most likely did not have an aft tube
There's only so much you can read into the actual depictions in TOS, since 90% of all weapon FX were recycled stock footage. Taken this literally, it would imply the TOS ship wasn't even equipped with aft phasers.
Well, when was it said that the TOS Enterprise had aft phasers?
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