Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End

James Wright · February 17 2010, 12:31 AM

What's your best guess as to Picard's relative mentioned in "Journey's End", if he was Spanish did he die thus ending the Spaninsh line of the Picard family?

James

Mr. Laser Beam · February 17 2010, 12:35 AM

I don't know how the name 'Picard' could have popped up in a Spanish family, but here it is:

Javier Maribona-Picard

I'm just hazarding a guess that the actual Picard family line (in France) can be traced back much farther than that. So how'd Javier get ahold of it, since he's obviously not French? I suppose he could be a several-times-great-uncle or something, like if a Picard came to Spain, married a Maribona, and their kids hyphenated the name, but obviously Picard isn't a descendant of such a union since he is just "Picard".

Nerys Myk · February 17 2010, 03:34 AM

My wife is descended from a Spanish-French couple who moved to Mexico in the Napoleonic era.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 17 2010, 03:43 AM

^ But Picard isn't. His family is provably French and they never lived anywhere else *but* France.

As for Javier, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I guess it's most likely that he is not an actual *ancestor* of Picard (given Javier's birthplace and hyphenated name) but is a very distant uncle. Meaning, a Picard came to Mexico and married a Maribona, then their children had both names.

M · February 17 2010, 03:48 AM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

^ But Picard isn't. His family is provably French and they never lived anywhere else *but* France.

And you figure this how?

James Wright · February 17 2010, 03:50 AM

I've got idea, maybe back in the day when a fellow named Cromwell ruled England for a brief time the Picard family left England and immigrated to France in hopes of returning fo England someday, now maybe there was something in France some family members didn't like so they just kept going until they got to Spain !

If any of you have ideas on this, c'mon let's hear them!

James

Mr. Laser Beam · February 17 2010, 03:50 AM

NCC-1701 wrote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

^ But Picard isn't. His family is provably French and they never lived anywhere else *but* France.

And you figure this how?

Because we never saw it.

Nerys Myk · February 17 2010, 04:05 AM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

NCC-1701 wrote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

^ But Picard isn't. His family is provably French and they never lived anywhere else *but* France.

And you figure this how?

Because we never saw it.

I dunno, I think you mentioned a member of the family who is from Spain and went to New Mexico and then there are the Martian Picards.

Admiral Shran · February 17 2010, 08:22 AM

Maybe Javier's ancestors had once lived in France but moved to Spain, thus accounting for his name. Then, sometime in the 800 years seperating Javier from Jean-Luc, some of Javier's descendents moved back to France and started calling themselves Picards again, instead of Maribona-Picards.

Nerys Myk · February 17 2010, 08:27 AM

Admiral Shran wrote:

Maybe Javier's ancestors had once lived in France but moved to Spain, thus accounting for his name. Then, sometime in the 800 years seperating Javier from Jean-Luc, some of Javier's descendents moved back to France and started calling themselves Picards again, instead of Maribona-Picards.

Some one move from one place to another? Impossible!!!!!

USS KG5 · February 17 2010, 12:43 PM

James Wright wrote:

What's your best guess as to Picard's relative mentioned in "Journey's End", if he was Spanish did he die thus ending the Spaninsh line of the Picard family?

James

Given the pride with which Picard describes "The Picard who fought at Trafalgar" one can only assume that his ancestor there was British.

You can imagine someone going "Oh cool, was he on one of the ships captured, one of the ones that sunk, or the handful that survived to run away?"

Seriously, we are talking one of the most embarassing defeats in French military history here (long and distinguished list I concede).

Mr. Laser Beam · February 17 2010, 05:27 PM

Nerys Myk wrote:

Admiral Shran wrote:

Maybe Javier's ancestors had once lived in France but moved to Spain, thus accounting for his name. Then, sometime in the 800 years seperating Javier from Jean-Luc, some of Javier's descendents moved back to France and started calling themselves Picards again, instead of Maribona-Picards.

Some one move from one place to another? Impossible!!!!!

AFAIK, Picard's family album in Generations lists a lot of famous Picards, some of which lived earlier in history than Javier did.

Nerys Myk · February 17 2010, 07:28 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

Nerys Myk wrote:

Admiral Shran wrote:

Maybe Javier's ancestors had once lived in France but moved to Spain, thus accounting for his name. Then, sometime in the 800 years seperating Javier from Jean-Luc, some of Javier's descendents moved back to France and started calling themselves Picards again, instead of Maribona-Picards.

Some one move from one place to another? Impossible!!!!!

AFAIK, Picard's family album in Generations lists a lot of famous Picards, some of which lived earlier in history than Javier did.

Not sure what you're trying to prove here. The Picards lives in France for X number of years, then they move to Spain for X number of years. Then they move back to France. They seem to have spent some time on Mars as well.

Admiral Shran · February 17 2010, 09:05 PM

USS KG5 wrote:

Given the pride with which Picard describes "The Picard who fought at Trafalgar" one can only assume that his ancestor there was British.

You can imagine someone going "Oh cool, was he on one of the ships captured, one of the ones that sunk, or the handful that survived to run away?"

Seriously, we are talking one of the most embarassing defeats in French military history here (long and distinguished list I concede).

No kidding. I remember the first time I saw that scene. I thought then, and everytime I've seen it since, "Oh, you mean the Picard who got his ass kicked?"

I could see it going both ways however. The Picard family seems to like to move around a lot. Maybe they started out in France, moved to Spain (in Javier's time), then moved to Britain (for the Battle of Trafalgar), then moved back to France again, and finally moved to Mars while some stayed in France. Or maybe the Picard at Trafalgar was either French or Spanish. If he was French, it means he got his ass kicked. If he was Spanish, it means he ran away.

Since I like Jean-Luc so much, I'll assume his family was living in Britain at the time.

Timo · February 17 2010, 10:13 PM

Plenty of French officers fighting on the British side at Trafalgar, I'd wager. After all, wouldn't the French Navy have been a nest of royalists in the early stages of the revolution - royalists in an excellent position to expatriate themselves and continue the fight?

FWIW, the portrait of this "Picard at Trafalgar", although unseen in ST:GEN, features a man in a rather nondescript uniform without national insignia visible.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File..._Trafalgar.jpg

Anybody recognize the uniform or its real-world inspiration?

Anyway, I wouldn't wonder a bit if Jean-Luc Picard took pride in being on the losing side of a battle. He's beyond petty 20th century concerns in other respects, or aspires to be - why would he place significance on winning? And it's not as if losing in disgrace ever stopped people from the southern parts of the US from exhibiting military pride...

Timo Saloniemi

February 17 2010, 12:31 AM	#1
James Wright Commodore- Starship Captain Location: Church Hill, Tennessee	Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End What's your best guess as to Picard's relative mentioned in "Journey's End", if he was Spanish did he die thus ending the Spaninsh line of the Picard family? James __________________ Starship Captain

February 17 2010, 12:35 AM	#2
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End I don't know how the name 'Picard' could have popped up in a Spanish family, but here it is: Javier Maribona-Picard I'm just hazarding a guess that the actual Picard family line (in France) can be traced back much farther than that. So how'd Javier get ahold of it, since he's obviously not French? I suppose he could be a several-times-great-uncle or something, like if a Picard came to Spain, married a Maribona, and their kids hyphenated the name, but obviously Picard isn't a descendant of such a union since he is just "Picard". __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. Last edited by Mr. Laser Beam; February 17 2010 at 03:38 AM.

February 17 2010, 03:34 AM	#3
Nerys Myk Admiral Location: House of Kang, now with ridges	Re: Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End My wife is descended from a Spanish-French couple who moved to Mexico in the Napoleonic era.

February 17 2010, 03:43 AM	#4
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End ^ But Picard isn't. His family is provably French and they never lived anywhere else but France. As for Javier, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I guess it's most likely that he is not an actual ancestor of Picard (given Javier's birthplace and hyphenated name) but is a very distant uncle. Meaning, a Picard came to Mexico and married a Maribona, then their children had both names. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

February 17 2010, 03:50 AM	#6
James Wright Commodore- Starship Captain Location: Church Hill, Tennessee	Re: Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End I've got idea, maybe back in the day when a fellow named Cromwell ruled England for a brief time the Picard family left England and immigrated to France in hopes of returning fo England someday, now maybe there was something in France some family members didn't like so they just kept going until they got to Spain ! If any of you have ideas on this, c'mon let's hear them! James __________________ Starship Captain

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February 17 2010, 08:22 AM	#9
Admiral Shran Admiral Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago	Re: Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End Maybe Javier's ancestors had once lived in France but moved to Spain, thus accounting for his name. Then, sometime in the 800 years seperating Javier from Jean-Luc, some of Javier's descendents moved back to France and started calling themselves Picards again, instead of Maribona-Picards. __________________ Vote Obomney 2012! "All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune

February 17 2010, 10:13 PM	#15
Timo Admiral	Re: Picard relative mentioned in Journey's End Plenty of French officers fighting on the British side at Trafalgar, I'd wager. After all, wouldn't the French Navy have been a nest of royalists in the early stages of the revolution - royalists in an excellent position to expatriate themselves and continue the fight? FWIW, the portrait of this "Picard at Trafalgar", although unseen in ST:GEN, features a man in a rather nondescript uniform without national insignia visible. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File..._Trafalgar.jpg Anybody recognize the uniform or its real-world inspiration? Anyway, I wouldn't wonder a bit if Jean-Luc Picard took pride in being on the losing side of a battle. He's beyond petty 20th century concerns in other respects, or aspires to be - why would he place significance on winning? And it's not as if losing in disgrace ever stopped people from the southern parts of the US from exhibiting military pride... Timo Saloniemi