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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old January 17 2010, 12:58 AM   #1
buckeyenation
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Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

Just seeing what the opinions are when comparing the best of the original series cast movies against the best TNG movie.
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Old January 17 2010, 01:58 AM   #2
The Wormhole
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

TWOK, hands down. First Contact doesn't even compare. In fact, the only Trek movie that is in the same league as TWOK is TUC, and I honestly can't decide which is better between those two.
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Old January 17 2010, 02:17 AM   #3
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

buckeyenation wrote: View Post
Just seeing what the opinions are when comparing the best of the original series cast movies against the best TNG movie.
The Wrath of Khan easily beats out First Contact for me.

First Contact makes two critical errors:

- Turns the Borg into generic zombie flick enemies.
- Tries turning Picard into an action hero.

The Wrath of Khan feels like a natural evolution of the characters.
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Old January 17 2010, 02:22 AM   #4
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

T'Wok for me....
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Old January 17 2010, 02:23 AM   #5
Starbreaker
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

I like First Contact better, but they're different types of films, really.
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Old January 17 2010, 09:25 AM   #6
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

First Contact
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Old January 17 2010, 10:21 AM   #7
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

The Wrath of Khan. It's been quite some time since I saw it, but it sticks in the mind very well. First Contact isn't in the same league.
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Old January 17 2010, 12:59 PM   #8
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

Whilst I realise TWoK might seem the obvious choice, I seem to enjoy FC better, despite my objections to the concept of The Borg Queen.
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Old January 17 2010, 01:07 PM   #9
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

I love First Contact to death; it's one of my all-time favorite films. It's my favorite Trek film. But from an objective point of view? Khan is superior. It's more approachable to non-Trekkies and really cemented the Trek brand as a franchise.

First Contact is certainly exceptional, and stands out as the best 'modern' (1990-present) Trek film, best of the TNG films by far, and another great film that has the ability to be approachable by non-Trekkies. But it's got some issues that detract from it. There is debate on FC's greatness; no one argues with TWOK's greatness but the most die-hard purists.

When people talk superior sequels, or do film greatness comparisons, it's a prime example. It's the "Godfather, Part II" of Trek films.
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Old January 17 2010, 01:18 PM   #10
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

The Wrath of Khan, and the comparison is instructive. Ultimately the TNG films, while often very enjoyable, are little more than action-adventure romps with nothing especially deep to say, certainly about its characters. The TOS films, on the other hand, are about something, and do what Roddenberry always wanted Trek to do, namely say something about what it is to be human, through its characters. TWOK, thematically, is rich, nuanced and intelligent. FC is, the Ahab scene and some superficial observations about the dangers of historical mythologising aside, about a group of robots trying to take over a starship. There's no comparison.
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Old January 17 2010, 02:07 PM   #11
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

TWOK is the better film, for all the reasons cited here and others, but I enjoyed First Contact more.
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Old January 17 2010, 03:01 PM   #12
Finngle Bells
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

BillJ wrote: View Post
The Wrath of Khan easily beats out First Contact for me.

First Contact makes two critical errors:

- Turns the Borg into generic zombie flick enemies.
- Tries turning Picard into an action hero.
Not as bad as the Genesis device and the Reliant not realizing they had the wrong planet....

Picard didn't act like Bruce Willis in First Contact. Except for swinging on a cable toward the end, he didn't devitate from any of the actions he showed on TNG. We've seen him climb a cliff on a Cardassian world, wield a phaser rifle, pretended to be a thug by punching out Riker and shoot aliens from the future Bond style.

As for the Borg, "generic zombie flick" isn't the issue. The introduction of the Queen was, at least the way she acted...
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Old January 17 2010, 03:18 PM   #13
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

Wrath of Khan is way better than First Contact. I never found any of the TNG movies to be really good, but First Contact is perhaps the only one that is watchable, which is saying a lot considering I love the TNG series.
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Old January 17 2010, 04:06 PM   #14
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

I love FC, and I've always thought TWOK was totally overrated.
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Old January 17 2010, 04:07 PM   #15
BillJ
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Re: Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?

Finn wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The Wrath of Khan easily beats out First Contact for me.

First Contact makes two critical errors:

- Turns the Borg into generic zombie flick enemies.
- Tries turning Picard into an action hero.
Not as bad as the Genesis device and the Reliant not realizing they had the wrong planet....

Picard didn't act like Bruce Willis in First Contact. Except for swinging on a cable toward the end, he didn't devitate from any of the actions he showed on TNG. We've seen him climb a cliff on a Cardassian world, wield a phaser rifle, pretended to be a thug by punching out Riker and shoot aliens from the future Bond style.

As for the Borg, "generic zombie flick" isn't the issue. The introduction of the Queen was, at least the way she acted...
- Spacewalk
- Holo-deck
- End in Engineering
- Face-off with Worf

The way these scenes played were all out of character for Picard.

As for the wrong planet: I think we all seem to forget just how large a star system is. These bodies aren't just lined up in a row. So if the physical characteristics of Ceti Alpha V matched those known about Ceti Alpha VI, it is possible a mistake could be made. Then there's pure fact that sensor Treknology has never been consistent. When you take all that into account: the error never bothered me.
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