RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,115
Posts: 5,400,704
Members: 24,744
Currently online: 447
Newest member: Ohwowmelody

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 27 2010, 04:03 PM   #721
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Ah, but as TheGodBen observed, he simply said they wouldn't attack. Not that they wouldn't attack in that way. Personally I put basically nothing past the Minbari in terms of what they're willing to do given the right reasons, but that again is another lengthy discussion.
If you must split hairs, he actually says: -

"It wasn't the humans. The Centauri don't have the will. The Vorlons don't care. The Minbari wouldn't do it. The other worlds aren't powerful enough for such a strike. There's someone else out there, Na'Toth."


With all of this he's specifically referring to that attack on that base in that way, which as Na'toth says: -

"It's as if some great hand reached out of space and...just erased them."

For all the powers he's named, that means committing a massive coordinated strike that could only last a few minutes. While they could all physically do it, it's the same as saying the British Navy have nuked Hawai. It's within their capabilities but without getting further into hypothetical scenarios, it just wouldn't happen.

Doesn't mean they're above subtelty. In fact their 'we're-so-more-zen-than-thou' dialogue suggests they prize byzantine puzzling responses.
Possibly. But we're talking about what G'Kar thinks and he clearly doesn't buy it.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 04:13 PM   #722
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Reverend wrote: View Post
Close. His grandmother was a Boston cop, his old man was an ex-marine security officer. But yes, the way to reconcile it is to say he was born in New York and moved to Mars in the 30's, probably around the time his old man was out fighting the Dilgar.
That's right, been awhile since I've seen that ep...Grey 13 is Missing, right? He was showing Zach his "slug thrower".

Some people like to harsh on that ep, even JMS. But I like it, for the Garibaldi stuff AND for Robert Englund.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 04:18 PM   #723
David cgc
Vice Admiral
 
David cgc's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

One, spoilers, two, I remember him mentioning it in "By Any Means Necessary," talking about the "Blue Flu."
__________________
“I come here to have fun and fuck around merrily. I expect to showered by all kind of random crap.”
iguana_tonante
David cgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 04:19 PM   #724
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

My bad.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 04:32 PM   #725
TheGodBen
Rear Admiral
 
TheGodBen's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Season 1 Review

It was the dawn of the third review thread of Ben's kind – one year after the Voyager review thread. The Babylon Review Project was a dream, given form. Its goal: to prevent another war, by creating a place where Niners and Fivers can work out their differences peacefully. It's a port of call – home away from home – for nerds, geeks, dorks, and trolls. Niners and Fivers, wrapped in two million, five hundred thousand annoying flash ads… all alone with no social lives. It can be a boring place, but it's our last best hope for peace. This is the story of the first season of the Babylon Review Project. The month is February. The URL of the place is
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=113232

Cue dramatic music.



It's dark blue! See, the border sort of matches the exterior colour of the station. I put a lot of thought into this.

(The Gathering is not included in the graph.)

For those unfamiliar with the system, this graph should be easy to understand. The blue line represents the scores I awarded to individual episodes between 0 and 10, the green line is the average score for the season, and the red line is a trend-line. In this case the trend-line indicates quite strongly that I felt the season improved as it went along, and just by looking at the blue line you can see that I felt the series started out very poorly but the end of the season was very strong. The average score for this season was 5.045, which is ever so slightly above average, that means that I liked more things than I disliked but only barely. Remove the season finale and it goes the other way.



This graph is also simple, each of the bars represents the number of each score awarded, with 7 being the most awarded score, four episodes achieved it, while no episode managed a score of 10. I thought that this graph looked eerily familiar so I took a glance at my review folders and found this: Enterprise season 3. Between 8 and 3 the scores match up perfectly, the reason why Ent season 3 scored so much better was because of the two 9s and two 10s and the season only had one 0 dragging it down. B5 season 1 is the other way around, only one 9 score, one 0 and two 1s. Isn't that amazing?

Well I thought it was.

8 episodes this season scored below average, 3 were average and 11 were above average.
Best episode: Babylon Squared
Worst episode: Infection


The Writers

It's really not worth the effort doing this, it's JMS's show and there's not enough diversity of writers for me to bother. This feature will return when I review DS9.

Aww, stop crying.


What Would TheGodBen Do?

I'm not doing this either. I have only a small idea of what JMS's long-term plan is and I'd rather watch it unfold than try to rewrite it. Besides, I'm not as attached to this universe as I am to the Trek one, so I have no opinions of what I think it should be in relation to what it is.

Yes, this is all an excuse so that I don't have to write as much.


Statistics

Commander Greyshirt: 8
Scott Bakula: 15
Scott Bakula?!: 3

Season 1 Average: 5.045
Overall Average (Including The Gathering): 5.043

Voyager Average After 1 Season: 5.867
Enterprise Average After 1 Season: 5.16


In Summation


The first season isn't the epic and magnificent space opera you imagine when people talk about Babylon 5, but I knew that it wouldn't be. The season has its moments, and it is clearly laying the groundwork for something bigger in the seasons to come, but it is struggling in places, particularly when it comes to the weekly antagonists. It's not the standalone nature of the episodes that's bringing them down, Believers is a standalone episode that I found very engaging, but the series is at its best when it dives into its overarching storylines, so hopefully this will continue as the show focuses more on these in the seasons to come.

I like some of the characters, Garibaldi and Londo are the two that come to mind at the moment, while other characters irritate me, Lennier and Vir being the main two. Sinclair has the potential to be a good character but he hasn't really stood out for me yet. I'm interested in seeing what Sheridan will be like and if his presence will significantly alter the feeling of the show. The humour is hit and miss, there are times when characters, particularly alien characters, act a little too cartoony for my taste, and there are other times when I enjoy it, such as the Hokey Pokey scene or the discussion about zippers.

The season hasn't scared me off, although if I didn't know that the series will change a lot after this first season then I might have decided to give up on it. I already have a loan of the season 2 set so I'll start watching that eventually, although I'll probably take a few days off to focus on college work.
__________________
...so many different suns...
TheGodBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 04:53 PM   #726
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Well done, GB. I especially like the thematic intro.

Kudos.

For the record, though, I've never gotten the Niner/Fiver friction. Same with Star Wars/Star Trek rivalry. I'm a fan of them all and see that stuff as tribal nonsense.

But that's me.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells

Last edited by stonester1; February 27 2010 at 05:58 PM.
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 07:37 PM   #727
Canadave
Vice Admiral
 
Canadave's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Catharines, ON
View Canadave's Twitter Profile
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

^ I'm the same way. Hell, I even like both dogs and cats!

Seriously, I think it's silly to fight about which is better. Just enjoy 'em on their own merits.
__________________
My blog!
Canadave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 07:40 PM   #728
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Totally agreed. They're all such different things that I find it silly to compare. OMG, both shows take place on a space station!!!

That would be like comparing "LOST" to "Gilligan's Island."
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 07:50 PM   #729
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Totally agreed. They're all such different things that I find it silly to compare. OMG, both shows take place on a space station!!!

That would be like comparing "LOST" to "Gilligan's Island."
Check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13ri...om=PL&index=59

Especially check out the 2:43 mark.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 08:01 PM   #730
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

stonester1 wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Totally agreed. They're all such different things that I find it silly to compare. OMG, both shows take place on a space station!!!

That would be like comparing "LOST" to "Gilligan's Island."
Check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13ri...om=PL&index=59

Especially check out the 2:43 mark.
Holy shit. That might be one of the coolest things I've ever seen...on YouTube.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 09:09 PM   #731
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

I think that's a pretty fair assessment of the first season and I'm reasonably sure JMS had some similar thoughts as few if any of the above mentioned mistakes are repeated...often.

I'm actually reading the new making of Crusade book and the first interview with JMS is just around the time they went into full production and he mentions how they were trying to avoid making the same mistakes they made back in B5's first season and judging by what we ended up with (not to spoil anything) the average was defiantly better.

As for the DS9/B5 rivalry, I'm not sure what's worse; Trekkies who insist on comparing every episode of B5 to something they've seen in the 100's of hour of Star Trek, or the B5 fans who insist their favourite show is superior in all conceivable ways. Neither group does either show, or indeed themselves any favours by thinking that way.

Fortunately, most people on this board have a reasonable perspective in that regard.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 09:12 PM   #732
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Reverend wrote: View Post
I think that's a pretty fair assessment of the first season and I'm reasonably sure JMS had some similar thoughts as few if any of the above mentioned mistakes are repeated...often.

I'm actually reading the new making of Crusade book and the first interview with JMS is just around the time they went into full production and he mentions how they were trying to avoid making the same mistakes they made back in B5's first season and judging by what we ended up with (not to spoil anything) the average was defiantly better.
Agreed. As good as B5's first season was, or how much promise it showed, Crusade was shaping up to be better in both.

Except they needed to ditch that Chen guy and bring Franke back to do the music.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 09:20 PM   #733
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Vice Admiral
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
But I kept being told by people that the finale to season 1 had a shocking twist and that it would really get me interested in the show. It might have had that effect on me had I not heard about the Shadows in advance.
You'll have to get used to that and temper your expectations a little bit. It's most devoted fans have a tendency to ascend B5 to the high heavens, and imo exaggerate it. I really do like B5 as a whole, I think it's by far one of the better sci-fi shows, particularly from the 90s, but it's also just as much because there's been so few other great ones. With the advent of shows like Firefly, Farscape, BSG, it somehow feels a little less special over time... my thoughts on Season 1 is pretty much in line with your thoughts from your graph-post, and i found it to be a remarkably objective (subjectively objective ) look at the individual episodes. I'd grade it a solid 6 out of 10.

One thing I will say is that there's a stretch from aobut mid-S2 all the way through early S4, which contains a some really genuinely powerful moments. In those (somewhat rare) moments, the series actually lives up to the mega-hype that the B5 evangelists give to it. But all around it, there's also a lot of corny acting (that fans insist is Emmy-worthy), really bad humor, and cringing dialogue. I give the whole show a solid B, as one of the seminal genre shows of the 90s for me (along with Buffy and DS9).
Stone_Cold_Sisko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 09:26 PM   #734
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

In my opinion, the best episodes of Season 1 aren't the best because they're shocking or exciting like you might expect from a more recent show. They're the best because of how important they are to the future arc of the show as a whole. I remember being fairly underwhelmed by episodes like "Signs and Portents" and "Chrysalis," thinking that really amazing and exciting things would happen (this is, of course, because these episodes had been hyped up around here, so I had really high expectations). In retrospect, they are very important episodes, but like most of Season 1, they are really just there to lay the groundwork for stuff that hasn't happened yet.

I think it takes Season 2 a few episodes to get going, but once it did, I couldn't stop watching. I blew through Seasons 2-4 in about a week.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2010, 09:28 PM   #735
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Exactly. I loved season one, as this episodic look into what was obviously a HUGE science fiction universe unlike anything I had seen before.

But later, after we got into the other seasons, it was clear that season one had been the equivalent of farmers out planting seeds en masse.

The subsequent seasaons? Harvesting crops.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
babylon 5, episode discussion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.