Mass Effect 2 - Page 23

Skywalker · February 9 2010, 04:56 AM

ME1 wins in terms of overall storyline, but ME2 has it beat in terms of character depth and development. I hope that ME3 will manage to bring both strengths together.

firehawk12 · February 9 2010, 05:05 AM

I don't know, I've been having this discussion on GAF so I'm kind of tired of it, but ME2 is fairly shallow - almost necessarily, because of its open ended nature.

Since they don't know what order you'll do things, the characters almost never interact with each other nor does having certain characters with you really change anything.

It's rather unfortunate, because on a second playthrough, you can see the problems with this type of RPG writing.

ATimson · February 9 2010, 05:19 AM

Arrqh wrote:

I'm not sure I'd call the loyalty and recruitment missions "padding". It's more like the game had an A story (Collectors) and a B story (building your team) and the two are interrelated... whereas ME1 only had a main story.

Hmm. I guess I could see that, though the B story is hardly what I'd call "grabbing".

Ryan · February 9 2010, 10:19 AM

ATimson wrote:

So, I finished the game on Sunday. Is it just me, or is the plot maybe half the length of the original Mass Effect, with more side quest padding?

It definitely feels shorter but that might be because plot wise very little is happening. In ME1 you had to unravel the entire mystery of what was going on. In ME2 you're getting dispatched on missions. Shepard is never the driver of the action. The Illusive Man is. There's only one revelation and it's not very surprising when you learn it.

I'm interested in how they're going to handle ME3 given the final mission can happen so many ways.

Haggis and tatties · February 9 2010, 11:06 AM

Jax wrote:

Anyone get this bug...

even if Grunt is loyal, Fortification will not be unlocked. This issue is also present on the PC version; however, you are still able to learn this ability.

Allegedly this issue has to deal with the Pyjack sidequest. If one does this quest before Grunt's loyalty mission, there is no skill lock.

This better not get him or me killed in the suicide mission.

Well i just completed the Grunt mission, then went and did the pyjack shooting side quest, and fortification is still locked....so maybe you need to go back to the ship first and verify that its open before doing the pyjack thing.

Reverend · February 9 2010, 01:27 PM

ME1 had WAY more padding missions and most of them were dull, banal, had little or no connection to the main story and usually took place in copy/paste locations or were so trivial (like the domestic dispute on the Presidium) it was almost insulting.

ME2 has very little padding, if at all. I'd even go as far as to say that all the optional loyalty and N7 missions are unique, engaging and mostly rewarding.

Mr Light · February 9 2010, 01:30 PM

Oh yeah the side missions are absolutely MUCH better in this one, all in unique locations with differing baddies and objectives. Hell the ME1 side missions all took place in the same two winged building on every alien planet!

The action and the stage designs are way improved. The interface is way improved. The Mako bits are gone (though planet scanning is really tedious it can also be a little relaxing after a shoot em up). The inventory system is fixed.

TheBrew · February 9 2010, 02:32 PM

I would say that the overall story in ME1 was better, but everything else is better in ME2. I think that the real test is to see how all of these relationships you developed pay off in ME3.

In a ways, it is a lot like Empire where the story was more personal to set up the epic finale in Jedi. Hopefully, ME3 won't have any ewoks.

TheGodBen · February 9 2010, 03:41 PM

ME1 had a better story for sure, but even then it wasn't all that cohesive. The missions on Noveria and Feros could take up to 3 or 4 hours each depending on how you play them and they weren't really connected to the main plot: Sovereign was trying to make an alliance with the Thorian and Rachni for some reason despite their limited power. When you really get down to it there was only four missions in ME1 directly related to the plot: Eden Prime, Citadel, Virmire and Ilos/Citadel. The other three missions only tied in because each one gave you visions from the beacon, and those visions had very little to do with the actual mission.

What made ME1 so good was Virmire, because it was a very tense mission with a big revelation and an emotional climax, and the final mission, because climbing the exterior of the Citadel tower was awesome. ME2 didn't have missions on that level, not even the suicide mission could match them.

Haggis and tatties · February 9 2010, 04:42 PM

Wow....loved the ending.

Now do i continue or start again.

Ryan · February 9 2010, 04:47 PM

Mr Light wrote:

The inventory system is fixed.

I'd call it neutered.

Jax · February 9 2010, 04:47 PM

EA was busy announcing its line up for 2010-2011 fiscal year and mentioned a Mass Effect project...

Something far-reaching for Mass Effect" in the works

Now the fiscal year ends in March 2011 so that rules out ME 3 and it would seem strange to have EA announce a plain vanilla DLC in such a manner or in such wording. Far reaching kind of leans towards MMO but again that could only be announced in 2011 not released but while I think ME will go down that route its too early for that IMO.

I wonder if the first spinoff for Mass Effect could be announced ?

Ryan · February 9 2010, 04:53 PM

TheGodBen wrote:

The missions on Noveria and Feros could take up to 3 or 4 hours each depending on how you play them and they weren't really connected to the main plot: Sovereign was trying to make an alliance with the Thorian and Rachni for some reason despite their limited power.

They were both connected to the plot. Saren needed the Thorian to decode the Prothean beacon and the Rachni queen to locate the lost relay to Ilos.

The Evil Dead · February 9 2010, 06:21 PM

I think Miranda will be back. Either she survived the suicide mission or...her genetically identical sister gets drafted by the Illusive Man to fight the Reapers.

Base_Delta_Zero · February 10 2010, 04:41 AM

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!!!!!

Miranda will be back because Yvone Stahovsky is so friggin' hot, especially with the Aussie accent. I think they spent more time highlighting/designing/animating her amazing bust and flawless behind than the Normandy II. It was awesome how perfect they made her character model (based off her perfect real life body, but still). There were even camera movements designed to focus on her ass whenever she was on screen.

Wonder if her piece of shit father will play a part in ME3 ... maybe they need some private funding and he's the only billionaire industrialist willing to pony up. Family drama!

------ Banter

I'll echo the call for better interactions between the squad on missions, too. If not random convos (which would be great, but with twelve allies, potentially daunting), then at least more commentary when I choose to do something heinous or decent in a cutscene. There were way too many silent bystander shots going on when people should have been voicing their opinions either of how cool my mission solutions were or decrying my stupidity.

------ Zaeed

Zaeed was my favorite squad member. He had the best dialogue and some cool stories about his past adventures. In fact, I think he had more dialogue than any of the other characters excepting maybe Mordin. You couldn't really interact with him, but he had a lot to say.

I used him and Miranda exclusively (except for Loyalty missions when I had to balance the forced squad member, and the end game when I wanted pure firepower for the Terminator/Reaper, and so took Widow-armed Legion instead of Miranda).

I also didn't want to risk Miranda getting killed in some stupid dive in front of the bullet scenario at the last second. Situation didn't pop up, but was possible.

------ Endgame

The walkthroughs out there already cover which squad member can survive which assignment in the final mission, but all it really takes is some common sense:

The Tech Specialist should be a tech specialist: Tali or Legion. Mordin might work, too. Haven't tried him.

The Biotic Specialist needs to be Samara/Morinth or Jack. Miranda and Thane are not pure biotics, they're too weak.

Team Leaders need to be team leaders: Miranda, Jacob, Garrus ... and Samara works, I think.

Same with escorting the survivors to evac. A team leader will work.

All the others are pretty much loners and not equipped to lead teams. They'll either get people killed or sacrifice themselves taking on too much.

My perfect run through (All 11 Loyal, all 11 survived, plus rescuees and myself):

Part 1
Tech Specialist: Tali
Team Leader: Garrus

Part 2
Biotic Specialist: Morinth
Team Leader: Miranda

Part 3
Evac Escort: Jacob (the only time after Freedom's Progress he got to leave the ship and actually do something and it was escorting wounded back to the ship!)
Final Squad: Zaeed & Legion

------- Random Nitpick

Why was everyone using assault rifles in the final mission cutscenes? Most can't equip them, including my FemShep. That was dumb and broke SOD.

How hard would it have been to throw in some pistol/shotgun/sniper animatics? Lazy.

They did the same type of thing in ME1. Shepherd was always breaking out the generic pistol, whether the situation called for it or not, and Ashley and Kaiden would pop up in their original armors, etc.

February 9 2010, 04:56 AM	#331
Skywalker Admiral	Re: Mass Effect 2 ME1 wins in terms of overall storyline, but ME2 has it beat in terms of character depth and development. I hope that ME3 will manage to bring both strengths together.

February 9 2010, 05:05 AM	#332
firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Location: EXILE + ATTON = GUUUUUUSH!!!! (pic by aimo)	Re: Mass Effect 2 I don't know, I've been having this discussion on GAF so I'm kind of tired of it, but ME2 is fairly shallow - almost necessarily, because of its open ended nature. Since they don't know what order you'll do things, the characters almost never interact with each other nor does having certain characters with you really change anything. It's rather unfortunate, because on a second playthrough, you can see the problems with this type of RPG writing. __________________ The best reason to watch Curling: Johnson Sisters! "How do you trust a nation that's invented Karate? They're standing there in their pajamas... then they kick you in the balls!"

February 9 2010, 01:27 PM	#336
Reverend Rear Admiral Location: UK	Re: Mass Effect 2 ME1 had WAY more padding missions and most of them were dull, banal, had little or no connection to the main story and usually took place in copy/paste locations or were so trivial (like the domestic dispute on the Presidium) it was almost insulting. ME2 has very little padding, if at all. I'd even go as far as to say that all the optional loyalty and N7 missions are unique, engaging and mostly rewarding. __________________ Star Trek Logos - Dark Knight Adventures - DeviantArt

February 9 2010, 01:30 PM	#337
Mr Light Admiral Location: Pennsylvania	Re: Mass Effect 2 Oh yeah the side missions are absolutely MUCH better in this one, all in unique locations with differing baddies and objectives. Hell the ME1 side missions all took place in the same two winged building on every alien planet! The action and the stage designs are way improved. The interface is way improved. The Mako bits are gone (though planet scanning is really tedious it can also be a little relaxing after a shoot em up). The inventory system is fixed. __________________

February 9 2010, 02:32 PM	#338
TheBrew Vice Admiral Location: Fox Lady	Re: Mass Effect 2 I would say that the overall story in ME1 was better, but everything else is better in ME2. I think that the real test is to see how all of these relationships you developed pay off in ME3. In a ways, it is a lot like Empire where the story was more personal to set up the epic finale in Jedi. Hopefully, ME3 won't have any ewoks. __________________ Sing glorious, victorious, One keg of beer for the four of us. Sing glory be to God that there are no more of us, For one of us could drink it all alone. Damn near.

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

February 9 2010, 03:41 PM	#339
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: Mass Effect 2 ME1 had a better story for sure, but even then it wasn't all that cohesive. The missions on Noveria and Feros could take up to 3 or 4 hours each depending on how you play them and they weren't really connected to the main plot: Sovereign was trying to make an alliance with the Thorian and Rachni for some reason despite their limited power. When you really get down to it there was only four missions in ME1 directly related to the plot: Eden Prime, Citadel, Virmire and Ilos/Citadel. The other three missions only tied in because each one gave you visions from the beacon, and those visions had very little to do with the actual mission. What made ME1 so good was Virmire, because it was a very tense mission with a big revelation and an emotional climax, and the final mission, because climbing the exterior of the Citadel tower was awesome. ME2 didn't have missions on that level, not even the suicide mission could match them. __________________ *...so many different suns...*

February 9 2010, 04:42 PM	#340
Haggis and tatties Rear Admiral Location: Glasgow	Re: Mass Effect 2 Wow....loved the ending. Now do i continue or start again. __________________

February 9 2010, 06:21 PM	#344
The Evil Dead Vice Admiral Location: 1123, 6536, 5321	Re: Mass Effect 2 I think Miranda will be back. Either she survived the suicide mission or...her genetically identical sister gets drafted by the Illusive Man to fight the Reapers. __________________ "I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. I’m a machine and I could know much more." - Cavil, Battlestar Galactica

February 10 2010, 04:41 AM	#345
Base_Delta_Zero Commodore Location: Maine	Re: Mass Effect 2 SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!!!!! Miranda will be back because Yvone Stahovsky is so friggin' hot, especially with the Aussie accent. I think they spent more time highlighting/designing/animating her amazing bust and flawless behind than the Normandy II. It was awesome how perfect they made her character model (based off her perfect real life body, but still). There were even camera movements designed to focus on her ass whenever she was on screen. Wonder if her piece of shit father will play a part in ME3 ... maybe they need some private funding and he's the only billionaire industrialist willing to pony up. Family drama! ------ Banter I'll echo the call for better interactions between the squad on missions, too. If not random convos (which would be great, but with twelve allies, potentially daunting), then at least more commentary when I choose to do something heinous or decent in a cutscene. There were way too many silent bystander shots going on when people should have been voicing their opinions either of how cool my mission solutions were or decrying my stupidity. ------ Zaeed Zaeed was my favorite squad member. He had the best dialogue and some cool stories about his past adventures. In fact, I think he had more dialogue than any of the other characters excepting maybe Mordin. You couldn't really interact with him, but he had a lot to say. I used him and Miranda exclusively (except for Loyalty missions when I had to balance the forced squad member, and the end game when I wanted pure firepower for the Terminator/Reaper, and so took Widow-armed Legion instead of Miranda). I also didn't want to risk Miranda getting killed in some stupid dive in front of the bullet scenario at the last second. Situation didn't pop up, but was possible. ------ Endgame The walkthroughs out there already cover which squad member can survive which assignment in the final mission, but all it really takes is some common sense: The Tech Specialist should be a tech specialist: Tali or Legion. Mordin might work, too. Haven't tried him. The Biotic Specialist needs to be Samara/Morinth or Jack. Miranda and Thane are not pure biotics, they're too weak. Team Leaders need to be team leaders: Miranda, Jacob, Garrus ... and Samara works, I think. Same with escorting the survivors to evac. A team leader will work. All the others are pretty much loners and not equipped to lead teams. They'll either get people killed or sacrifice themselves taking on too much. My perfect run through (All 11 Loyal, all 11 survived, plus rescuees and myself): Part 1 Tech Specialist: Tali Team Leader: Garrus Part 2 Biotic Specialist: Morinth Team Leader: Miranda Part 3 Evac Escort: Jacob (the only time after Freedom's Progress he got to leave the ship and actually do something and it was escorting wounded back to the ship!) Final Squad: Zaeed & Legion ------- Random Nitpick Why was everyone using assault rifles in the final mission cutscenes? Most can't equip them, including my FemShep. That was dumb and broke SOD. How hard would it have been to throw in some pistol/shotgun/sniper animatics? Lazy. They did the same type of thing in ME1. Shepherd was always breaking out the generic pistol, whether the situation called for it or not, and Ashley and Kaiden would pop up in their original armors, etc.