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View Poll Results: Do Vulcans have sex outside pon farr?
I believe so 44 93.62%
No, it wouldn't be logical 3 6.38%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 6 2010, 05:35 PM   #1
Mach5
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Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

I'm pretty sure we already had this thread, but lets settle this thing once and for all!

Do Vulcan couples have sex only during pon farr (once every seven years), or do they do it whenever they feel like it, and pon farr is only a time when they MUST do it?
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Old January 6 2010, 06:04 PM   #2
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

The latter. It would be stupid for any species to only mate once every seven years, especially if they all had to do it at completely different times as seems to be the case. When Vulcans get married would they wait until Pon Farr to consummate it or try to have a child? Wouldn't think so.

Pon farr is an irresistible urge, but I don't believe it's the only time they mate.
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Old January 6 2010, 06:05 PM   #3
Xerxes1979
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

I see no evidence of Romulan Pon Farr. The answer is therefore obvious.
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Old January 6 2010, 06:10 PM   #4
apenpaap
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

I'd say the Pon Farr is more like a safeguard to ensure that they mate at least every seven years. Otherwise their logical nature could lead to their extinction.
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Old January 6 2010, 06:37 PM   #5
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

I agree, having sex only once in seven years makes zero sense, but here's a thing that bugs me:

From ENT: "Fusion"

KOV: We were just discussing Vulcan mating rituals. Most of my people are extremely uncomfortable talking about such things. So many inhibitions. Vulcan males are driven to mate once every seven years.

TUCKER: Seven years?

REED: Frightening.

KOV: Over the past few years, we've been developing methods to accelerate the mating cycle.
So according to this, Vulcan males' sex drive is dormant in between two pon farr's, and women don't go trough pon farr at all?

Personally, I just dismiss this whole conversation as a goof, like the one in DS9 when Bashir said that Eugenics wars happened in 22. century (or whenever)...
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Old January 6 2010, 06:37 PM   #6
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

Let me quote D.C. Fontana (Edward Gross, Mark E. Altman, Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, Little Brown & Co, 1995. p. 53) :

Dorothy Fontana wrote:
Vulcans mate normally any time they want to. However, every seven years you do the ritual, the ceremony, the whole thing. The biological urge. You must, but any other time is any other emotion - humanoid emotion - when you're in love. When you want to, you know, when the urge is there, you do it. This every-seven-years business was taken too literally by too many people who don't stop and understand. We didn't mean it only every seven years. I mean, every seven years would be a little bad, and it would not explain the Vulcans of many different ages which are not seven years apart.
Mach5 wrote: View Post
I agree, having sex only once in seven years makes zero sense, but here's a thing that bugs me:

From ENT: "Fusion"

KOV: We were just discussing Vulcan mating rituals. Most of my people are extremely uncomfortable talking about such things. So many inhibitions. Vulcan males are driven to mate once every seven years.

TUCKER: Seven years?

REED: Frightening.

KOV: Over the past few years, we've been developing methods to accelerate the mating cycle.
So according to this, Vulcan males' sex drive is dormant in between two pon farr's, and women don't go trough pon farr at all?

Personally, I just dismiss this whole conversation as a goof, like the one in DS9 when Bashir said that Eugenics wars happened in 22. century (or whenever)...
That conversation bugged me, too.

But a little later, ENT itself showed that Vulcan women do go through Pon Farr.
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Old January 6 2010, 07:40 PM   #7
apenpaap
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

Mach5 wrote: View Post
I agree, having sex only once in seven years makes zero sense, but here's a thing that bugs me:

From ENT: "Fusion"

KOV: We were just discussing Vulcan mating rituals. Most of my people are extremely uncomfortable talking about such things. So many inhibitions. Vulcan males are driven to mate once every seven years.

TUCKER: Seven years?

REED: Frightening.

KOV: Over the past few years, we've been developing methods to accelerate the mating cycle.
So according to this, Vulcan males' sex drive is dormant in between two pon farr's, and women don't go trough pon farr at all?

Personally, I just dismiss this whole conversation as a goof, like the one in DS9 when Bashir said that Eugenics wars happened in 22. century (or whenever)...
It was a pretty young Vulcan, IIRC. Maybe Vulcans take longer to mature, and he hadn't had his first pon farr yet. I doubt if you asked a ten year old human child about our reproduction you would get a very good answer.
But a little later, ENT itself showed that Vulcan women do go through Pon Farr.
Does this contradict canon?
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Old January 6 2010, 09:12 PM   #8
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

And then there was Trip and T'Pol outside of Pon Farr. What did she say after the first time? "I was just curious..."
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Old January 6 2010, 09:15 PM   #9
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

I don't think it's a matter of Vulcan's not being able to have sex except during pon farr, but during pon farr the have to. I supose there might be some sort of social movement on Vulcan that discourages sexual activities except for during pon farr for some sort of perceived logical reason.
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Old January 6 2010, 09:24 PM   #10
DevilEyes
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

apenpaap wrote: View Post
But a little later, ENT itself showed that Vulcan women do go through Pon Farr.
Does this contradict canon?
I'd find it very strange if Vulcan females did not have a Pon Farr. I'd also find that there was a sexist and outdated idea at the bottom of that... you know, that it's natural for males have an irresistible urge for sex while females... do not? ... and are just being, um, accommodating, in order to help their men?

More surprising is that VOY introduced the idea that even non-Vulcans can get Pon Farr, as if it was an infection, through a telepathic link with a Vulcan undergoing Pon Farr (B'Elanna getting the Pon Farr from Vorik).

Here's how one poster tried to reconcile all the different bits of info about Pon Farr from various Trek shows:

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3698410&postcount=25

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
ElfEars wrote: View Post
I think they do because it would only make sense IMO, but in TSFS Saavik says that "Vulcan males" undergo Pon Farr and mentions nothing about females; it was only in ENT that they clearly established that females undergo Pon Farr. I remember I had a big debate with someone at Youtube over some Trek expanded universe "documentary" about Pon Farr (produced before ENT, I suppose) that described it as something that Vulcan males undergo; I argued that TSFS interpretation, which I dislike anyway, can be easily explained away as Saavik choosing not to talk about female Pon Farr to David Marcus (Vulcans don't really like talking about PF except when they really must), if reconciling it all in canon is that important.
If you can squint your eyes enough not to see any wrinkles in it, my pet theory to fit almost everything into one explanation is that Vulcan males undergo the 7 years cycle (TOS), while Vulcan females experience pon farr when triggered by contact with a male suffering the condition (VOY), or when exposed to intense stress or some other events (ENT). It helps that it doesn't involve the males and females having to adjust their "timing".
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Old January 6 2010, 09:43 PM   #11
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Dorothy Fontana wrote:
Vulcans mate normally any time they want to. However, every seven years you do the ritual, the ceremony, the whole thing. The biological urge. You must, but any other time is any other emotion - humanoid emotion - when you're in love. When you want to, you know, when the urge is there, you do it. This every-seven-years business was taken too literally by too many people who don't stop and understand. We didn't mean it only every seven years. I mean, every seven years would be a little bad, and it would not explain the Vulcans of many different ages which are not seven years apart.
Once D.C. Fontana has spoken, the subject is concluded.

Vulcan was shown to be a very matriarchal society, so the thought that only males have Pon Farr seems logical. A Vulcan couple are bonded on many levels so it is also logical that a female's psychic bond would mean that his Pon Farr could trigger her response to him.
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Old January 7 2010, 01:01 AM   #12
Nerys Myk
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

apenpaap wrote: View Post
Mach5 wrote: View Post
I agree, having sex only once in seven years makes zero sense, but here's a thing that bugs me:

From ENT: "Fusion"

KOV: We were just discussing Vulcan mating rituals. Most of my people are extremely uncomfortable talking about such things. So many inhibitions. Vulcan males are driven to mate once every seven years.

TUCKER: Seven years?

REED: Frightening.

KOV: Over the past few years, we've been developing methods to accelerate the mating cycle.
So according to this, Vulcan males' sex drive is dormant in between two pon farr's, and women don't go trough pon farr at all?

Personally, I just dismiss this whole conversation as a goof, like the one in DS9 when Bashir said that Eugenics wars happened in 22. century (or whenever)...
It was a pretty young Vulcan, IIRC. Maybe Vulcans take longer to mature, and he hadn't had his first pon farr yet. I doubt if you asked a ten year old human child about our reproduction you would get a very good answer.
But a little later, ENT itself showed that Vulcan women do go through Pon Farr.
Does this contradict canon?
No, just continuity.
Sector 7 wrote:
Vulcan was shown to be a very matriarchal society, so the thought that only males have Pon Farr seems logical. A Vulcan couple are bonded on many levels so it is also logical that a female's psychic bond would mean that his Pon Farr could trigger her response to him.
It was shown to have females in some leadership positions. Which is not the same as a matriarchy.
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Old January 7 2010, 02:04 AM   #13
The Wormhole
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

Vulcans can have sex whenever they want. But they choose not to since sex disgusts or disturbs them. However, repressing their sexual drive takes its toll and and after seven years of repression they must release by engaging in sex, thus the pon farr. I thought this was made perfectly clear in Amok Time?
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Old January 7 2010, 02:15 AM   #14
T'Girl
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

FordSVT wrote: View Post
Pon farr is an irresistible urge
During the movie "The Search For Spock" most folks think it is pretty obvious that Spock and Saavik had sex, and while young Spock was supposely experiencing pon farr, Saavik apparently wasn't. So unless she "caught" pon farr from Spock via mental contact, like Torres did in Voyager, that would seem to indicate that she (all Vulcan females) can and will have sex at any time.

I believe that Vulcan female do experience pon farr, in fact I hold that Spock in "Amok Time" didn't begin to enter pon farr until T'Pring also started pon farr on Vulcan. They were telepathically linked as children, T'Pring's first pon farr would be connected to her cycle, when she was old enough and ready to concieve, she would start, the mental link would trigger Spock to start. In ancient times Spock would walk across the village or come in from the fields.

Just now had a thought. When young Spock went into pon farr on the Genesis Planet, what did old T'Pring (on Vulcan) feel?

.
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Old January 7 2010, 02:36 AM   #15
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Re: Pon farr and Vulcan sexuality in general

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Just now had a thought. When young Spock went into pon farr on the Genesis Planet, what did old T'Pring (on Vulcan) feel?
Nothing, because when she bonded with Stonn, her link with Spock broke.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Vulcans can have sex whenever they want. But they choose not to since sex disgusts or disturbs them. However, repressing their sexual drive takes its toll and and after seven years of repression they must release by engaging in sex, thus the pon farr.
An insanely illogical practice for a logic-worshiping culture...
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