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Old January 3 2010, 12:48 AM   #16
The Wormhole
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
For a while, Gene Roddenberry was like the Tupac Shakur of sci-fi.


Now all we need is a conspiracy theory claiming Roddenberry is still alive.
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Old January 3 2010, 03:15 AM   #17
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

There's no "the" in Earth: Final Conflict.

Seasons 1-4 are quite good, season 5 is a different show that just happens to have the same name.

It's like calling Crusade "Babylon 5 season six".
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Old January 3 2010, 04:14 AM   #18
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

I found a way to watch all the seasons and I just watched "Decision". Overall: I enjoyed the pilot and I became more interested as the episode unfolded. It's very '90s and the series almost lost me during the first half of the pilot but it picked up once Boone's wife appears. I was surprised to see Lisa Ryder in the role.

After Kate Boone dies and William Boone meets with the Taleons again, one look from Sandoval told all I needed to know. It was obvious to me that Da'an had set up Boone to change his mind. From that point, I was hooked. Even better was that Boone realized the Taelons were likely responsible for his wife's death. I'm glad I wasn't reading into what's not there.

The alien asthetic is creative looking and different from Star Trek. The down-to-Earth stuff not so much. Though it's too generic, that might be the point, to show contrast and give a contemporary feel. I like the almost adrogynous appearance Da'an has, and I assume the rest of the Taleons have. It reminded me of Talosians in "The Cage".
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Old January 3 2010, 05:09 AM   #19
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
It was obvious to me that Da'an had set up Boone to change his mind. From that point, I was hooked. Even better was that Boone realized the Taelons were likely responsible for his wife's death. I'm glad I wasn't reading into what's not there.
Although I think this is all stated in the first episode... Maybe not?


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Old January 3 2010, 07:59 AM   #20
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

All of that pseudo-erotic Avatus hissing and heavy breathing and mugging at the camera bullshit was just.... stupid. I never bought these salivating morons as superior beings. They were basically "sexy" versions of the Wraith in SG-1.
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Old January 3 2010, 07:20 PM   #21
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Pilot Ace

Spoiler code that as Lord Garth hasn't gotten to there yet.
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Old January 3 2010, 08:20 PM   #22
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Pilot Ace

Spoiler code that as Lord Garth hasn't gotten to there yet.
That's all in the first episode, isn't it?
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Old January 3 2010, 08:32 PM   #23
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

^ Second episode, actually, although IIRC,
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Old January 3 2010, 10:12 PM   #24
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Well, at least I know what to look out for in the next episode. I figure I'll do an episode a day.
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Old January 4 2010, 12:18 AM   #25
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Daneel wrote: View Post
^ Second episode, actually, although IIRC,
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Old January 4 2010, 12:55 AM   #26
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

I don't think Season 2 counts. The original showrunner who handled the first half-season of E:FC was long gone by then, so if they said Da'an was responsible, that's a retcon after the fact. The original intent of the story was that Sandoval acted on his own.
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Old January 5 2010, 02:54 AM   #27
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

I just watched "Truth" (Episode 1.02). Good episode. Loved the Taelon interactions that framed the story.

Why the Hell did Sandoval confess to Boone? There's bound to be tension between these two characters throughout the season. Did Sandoval just want to put a quick end to Boone's hunt?

I'm glad the Taelons weren't responsible, and I like that Boone turned around suspicion about them since humans themselves aren't trustworthy. It's not often in a Roddenberry series that humans are shown in a negative light.
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Old January 5 2010, 04:05 AM   #28
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
I just watched "Truth" (Episode 1.02). Good episode. Loved the Taelon interactions that framed the story.

Why the Hell did Sandoval confess to Boone? There's bound to be tension between these two characters throughout the season. Did Sandoval just want to put a quick end to Boone's hunt?

I'm glad the Taelons weren't responsible, and I like that Boone turned around suspicion about them since humans themselves aren't trustworthy. It's not often in a Roddenberry series that humans are shown in a negative light.
I think Sandoval confessed because (at least in his mind) he believes that Boone is the same as him, an implant who will not experience the remorse of the loss of his wife and will actually understand the incident from his own CVI induced logic.

I thought that was freakin' brilliant writing! Now Boone has to deal with a HUGE emotional baggage. He has to deal with:

1. The fact that his wife is dead
2. The fact that he knows who killed her.
3. The fact that he understands that the killer didn't do it out of malice, but out of misled good intentions.
4. The fact that he has to pretend he knows nothing of these emotions, and has to keep up the schrade that he is the same as Sandoval.

I can't believe such a great show was ruined so quickly. If they had only kept the same level of writing (and kept the same cast) that show would have blown almost ALL sci-fi series out of the water. It would probably be considered a timeless classic now.

For me:

S1: Pure distilled uber-awesomeness.
S2: Horrid, I saw the first 2 episodes and didn't bother anymore.
S3-S4: I have no idea. I would occasionally catch the odd episode here and there. It seemed to have become a more down to earth political show by then. (Really the only reason I watched is because I liked that hot little vixen Street, and Rene herself wasn't bad on the eyes either ). I however, have no clue what was S3 and S4, I never really cared either.
S5: Again I caught an episode here and there. Like someone said above me, it became this cookie cutter bad guy show, sort of like Atlantis, but without any of the fun Atlantis had. I did see the final episode, and it didn't make sense. Who won? who lost?
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Old January 5 2010, 05:42 AM   #29
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I think Sandoval confessed because (at least in his mind) he believes that Boone is the same as him, an implant who will not experience the remorse of the loss of his wife and will actually understand the incident from his own CVI induced logic.
Exactly. Well, almost exactly. He assumed that Boone, like himself, had had his priorities readjusted so that serving the Taelons overrode all other considerations. It's not that he wouldn't experience remorse at his wife's death if the CVI had actually worked; it just wouldn't be as important to him as serving the Taelons, and he'd understand that it was necessary as a means to that end.

I thought that was freakin' brilliant writing! Now Boone has to deal with a HUGE emotional baggage. He has to deal with:

1. The fact that his wife is dead
2. The fact that he knows who killed her.
3. The fact that he understands that the killer didn't do it out of malice, but out of misled good intentions.
4. The fact that he has to pretend he knows nothing of these emotions, and has to keep up the schrade that he is the same as Sandoval.
Yeah. "Truth" is one of the two finest episodes of the series, the other being "Sandoval's Run." And they both revolve around the CVI and its effects on otherwise good people's priorities, particularly Sandoval's. That was a great concept. And "Truth" was superbly written by Richard C. Okie, the original showrunner and the man who took Roddenberry's concept (which was a more straightforward secretly-evil-aliens tale, a lot like V) and added the richness and complexity and nuance that made early E:FC so remarkable.

I can't believe such a great show was ruined so quickly. If they had only kept the same level of writing (and kept the same cast) that show would have blown almost ALL sci-fi series out of the water. It would probably be considered a timeless classic now.
That was Tribune Entertainment for you. They were obsessed with the bottom line above all, and particularly the short-term bottom line. They kept micromanaging their shows and replacing cast members and staff members with cheaper ones because they followed a strategy of keeping costs as low as possible to maximize profit in the short term, rather than one of making enough investment in the property to let it really earn a loyal audience and pay off with bigger profits in the long term.

Virtually no Tribune shows kept their developers/initial showrunners for very long. Robert Hewitt Wolfe was fired from Andromeda after a year and a half. Steve Feke was dumped from BeastMaster: The Series after one season, though he made some contributions to the second. But Richard C. Okie's tenure was the shortest I'm aware of. He was let go after half a season. And you can tell; although the first season overall is the strongest, it begins to show changes pretty much right after "Sandoval's Run." Particularly, Zo'or (a character created by the new showrunner) suddenly becomes a much more prominent character. Which is the beginning of the show's dumbing down, because unlike the fascinatingly ambiguous Taelons embodied by Da'an (who could be either protagonist or antagonist in different circumstances because his worldview was simply so alien), Zo'or was more of a straight baddie from the beginning (though not nearly as much of a moustache-twirler as he later became).


S2: Horrid, I saw the first 2 episodes and didn't bother anymore.
As I recall, S2 was very inconsistent. They didn't have a clear sense of story direction, which may have reflected more upheavals in the staff. There were arcs begun in the first half that evaporated later on, attempts to bring in more fanciful sci-fi stuff like parallel worlds. Not to mention the absurd contrivance of the half-alien hybrid Liam being born and growing to adulthood in a matter of moments, a very awkward way of replacing the departing Kevin Kilner as the lead. What they should've done was promote Lisa Howard to the lead role. I guess they weren't ready for the idea of an action show with a female lead. It's too bad that when they were ready three years later, the show was too far gone for it to be any good.

S3-S4: I have no idea. I would occasionally catch the odd episode here and there. It seemed to have become a more down to earth political show by then. (Really the only reason I watched is because I liked that hot little vixen Street, and Rene herself wasn't bad on the eyes either ). I however, have no clue what was S3 and S4, I never really cared either.
They were pretty shallow stuff. Another thing about Tribune is that they didn't want highbrow, thought-provoking science fiction, they wanted lowbrow action-adventure, because that sold well overseas. The simpler the concepts, the easier to translate, I guess. Majel Roddenberry really made the wrong choice partnering with them. Her goals, to produce sophisticated, intelligent, plausible speculative fiction, were completely different from Tribune's.

So there wasn't a lot of substance to those seasons, in story or character. They got pretty formulaic. Pretty much the only character growth that Liam and Renee underwent in those seasons was to become progressively blonder.
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Old January 5 2010, 06:06 AM   #30
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Re: Earth: The Final Conflict -- is it any good?

This explains Andromeda, also done by Tribune. Here was a Roddenberry concept, with a DS9 alumnus heading the show, and those two things alone should've guaranateed something I'd become a fan of. It never happened and within four months I couldn't watch any more.

Though I never watched E:FC at all, I did know someone who did and around the same time was complaining about why Gene Roddenberry's name was still attached to the show. From the sound of these posts, now I can understand why.

Earth: Final Conflict started three years before Andromeda. Shouldn't Majel Barrett have had enough time to have learned her lesson and done Earth with someone else?
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