RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,139
Posts: 5,433,791
Members: 24,934
Currently online: 553
Newest member: Emperor Khaless

TrekToday headlines

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old January 18 2010, 06:46 PM   #196
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Dennis wrote: View Post
Actually, the article that touched this topic off is well-observed and well written. That white Americans, particularly males, are so thin-skinned as a group that they can make a controversy out of the obvious goes a long way toward making the writer's point.
This is very true. I'm surprised at the amount of 'oh, well, all racism is bad' or 'I'm more ashamed to be human' responses. What does that have to do with white guilt or the myth of the white man subsuming himself in the foreign culture? Avatar takes the fantasy a step further; Lawrence may bemoan the fact he's got blue eyes and white skin but Jake can literally surrender that identity.

Hermiod wrote: View Post
Agreed. As I said before, there's no such thing as "white people".
Course there are. Just because things aren't simple doesn't mean they're not so; there may be white Germans, white Irishmen, white Americans, but they've got this curious common denominator factor, can you guess what it'd be?

Heck I live on an island whose traditional racial hatreds were between two white groups and even I find this pretty obvious.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:06 PM   #197
T'Baio
Admiral
 
T'Baio's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I have not oppressed...
You most likely have far more than you think, intentional or not, just by virtue of being a white male.
__________________
Making my first feature film, Synchronicity
www.synchronicityfilm.ca
IndieGoGo
On Facebook
T'Baio is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:08 PM   #198
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Hermiod wrote: View Post
Agreed. As I said before, there's no such thing as "white people".
Course there are. Just because things aren't simple doesn't mean they're not so; there may be white Germans, white Irishmen, white Americans, but they've got this curious common denominator factor, can you guess what it'd be?

Heck I live on an island whose traditional racial hatreds were between two white groups and even I find this pretty obvious.
I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.
Hermiod is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:10 PM   #199
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

T'Baio wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I have not oppressed...
You most likely have far more than you think, intentional or not, just by virtue of being a white male.
No, he hasn't. Most of us haven't. You make conscious decisions to discriminate and if he gives his word that he hasn't made such a decision then I, for one, believe him. You choose not to give a black man a job based on his colour, you choose to give an unfit mother custody of the kids, you choose not to let a gay man donate blood - these are choices you make. If you choose to do the right thing then you did not discriminate.

Thinking like this does absolutely nothing to help anyone.
Hermiod is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:14 PM   #200
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.
Nobody's said that. At most they've said there was systematic racism in how societies have been constructed, which seems a fair enough analysis.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:17 PM   #201
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Hermiod wrote: View Post
I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.
Nobody's said that. At most they've said there was systematic racism in how societies have been constructed, which seems a fair enough analysis.
The thread title says it. When will "white people" stop making movies like Avatar ?
Hermiod is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:20 PM   #202
T'Baio
Admiral
 
T'Baio's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
T'Baio wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I have not oppressed...
You most likely have far more than you think, intentional or not, just by virtue of being a white male.
No, he hasn't. Most of us haven't. You make conscious decisions to discriminate and if he gives his word that he hasn't made such a decision then I, for one, believe him. You choose not to give a black man a job based on his colour, you choose to give an unfit mother custody of the kids, you choose not to let a gay man donate blood - these are choices you make. If you choose to do the right thing then you did not discriminate.

Thinking like this does absolutely nothing to help anyone.
You're right. I apologize. He hasn't oppressed anyone. What I meant to say, and I said it poorly, is that he has probably benefitted from someone else's oppression by virtue of being a white male.
__________________
Making my first feature film, Synchronicity
www.synchronicityfilm.ca
IndieGoGo
On Facebook
T'Baio is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:21 PM   #203
David cgc
Vice Admiral
 
David cgc's Avatar
 
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.
There doesn't have to be an overt conspiracy for it to happen. Now, it's an interesting philosophical question as to whether or not someone should be considered morally culpable for being the beneficiary of white privilege, and I'd probably argue against that idea, but I feel very strongly that such privilege does exist, and that it is a problem of our society.

I'd recommend the works of Tim Wise if you're at all interested in the subject (and, since you're reading this and posting about it, you are).
__________________
“I come here to have fun and fuck around merrily. I expect to showered by all kind of random crap.”
iguana_tonante
David cgc is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:21 PM   #204
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
The thread title says it. When will "white people" stop making movies like Avatar ?
Yes, because the white people like James Cameron are intentionally putting the black man down, that's exactly what the implication of the thread title is.
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:27 PM   #205
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Hermiod wrote: View Post
The thread title says it. When will "white people" stop making movies like Avatar ?
Yes, because the white people like James Cameron are intentionally putting the black man down, that's exactly what the implication of the thread title is.
And so, we come to the root of this thread - somebody watched this film and got it in to their head that James Cameron is racist.

I'll file that one with the woman that thinks Joss Whedon rapes his wife based on a few episodes of Firefly.
Hermiod is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:30 PM   #206
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
And so, we come to the root of this thread - somebody watched this film and got it in to their head that James Cameron is racist.
No, we come to the root of how incoherent your viewpoint is. I was presenting something you'd have to accept as truthful for your past two statements above to make any kind of sense at all.

Look, being offended is one thing, but failing to understand the argument is sort of inexcusable. You understand white guilt, yes? That some white people might feel responsible for their privilege and the history of oppression and elimination and so on? And that then maybe they might make fantasies about how those people are saved, but they're still saved by white guys?

Because that's what the article is about. That's not really the same thing as saying James Cameron hates black people, now is it?
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:40 PM   #207
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Kegg wrote: View Post
No, we come to the root of how incoherent your viewpoint is. I was presenting something you'd have to accept as truthful for your past two statements above to make any kind of sense at all.

Look, being offended is one thing, but failing to understand the argument is sort of inexcusable. You understand white guilt, yes? That some white people might feel responsible for their privilege and the history of oppression and elimination and so on? And that then maybe they might make fantasies about how those people are saved, but they're still saved by white guys?

Because that's what the article is about. That's not really the same thing as saying James Cameron hates black people, now is it?
There's nothing incoherent about it at all. It was a very simple point - that there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used.

Let's face it, this thread has gone beyond a simple discussion of Avatar and movies like it.
Hermiod is offline  
Old January 18 2010, 07:43 PM   #208
Neroon
Mod of balance
 
Neroon's Avatar
 
Location: On my ship the Rocinante
Re: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Seems as if we're treading over the same ground again, all too often away from the film itself and the associated subject matter, it's time to close this thread. There are other "Avatar" threads, so take advantage of them.

Thread closed
__________________
"The greatest tales are always over far too soon for those who truly appreciate them."
- Jef Murray
Neroon is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
current issues, district 9

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.