RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,887
Posts: 5,329,864
Members: 24,557
Currently online: 463
Newest member: Mgroup Video

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 22 2009, 04:28 AM   #1
Tribbles
Commander
 
Tribbles's Avatar
 
Location: Tribbles are on the bridge, your lunch tray, everywhere-- and multiplying at an alarming rate!
"...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

I'm always curious about this line from Christine Chapel's declaration of love to Mr. Spock (The Naked Time). She goes on to assume that he wouldn't "hurt" her:

"...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely. At least, people say that, but you’re part human, too. I know you don’t, you couldn’t, hurt me, would you?"

What does she mean? Is she referring to Vulcan being a patriarchal society? Surely Vulcan men don't physically harm their wives? Or does she mean emotional pain?

I considered the possibility that she might be thinking about pon farr. Spock says it's not discussed with outsiders, but perhaps its potential physical harm to women may be a matter of rumor among humans. If this is on her mind, I'd say it's peripheral perhaps to the emotional turmoil a human woman might face from loving a Vulcan man.
__________________

Tribbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2009, 04:34 AM   #2
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

Silver TriBells wrote: View Post
I considered the possibility that she might be thinking about pon farr. Spock says it's not discussed with outsiders, but perhaps its potential physical harm to women may be a matter of rumor among humans.
Probably. But since most Humans probably don't really know much about Vulcans, there are probably a lot of exaggerated rumors about Vulcan men becoming wild and violent during Pon Farr - and then take it from there and imagine all sorts of stories that might have sprung from that. (Of course, TOS never bothered to explain whether Vulcan women undergo Pon Farr as well. )

Emotional pain may be an issue for a Human woman, but not for a Vulcan woman, since they are as emotionally reserved as Vulcan men are.
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2009, 10:45 AM   #3
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

Silver TriBells wrote: View Post
"...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely. At least, people say that, but you’re part human, too. I know you don’t, you couldn’t, hurt me, would you?"

What does she mean? Is she referring to Vulcan being a patriarchal society? Surely Vulcan men don't physically harm their wives? Or does she mean emotional pain?
I'd say she was referring to how Vulcan men treat their wives emotionally. It would certainly seem strange to humans that a husband would express absolutely no love or affection towards his wife.

As for not hurting her - probably both physically and emotionally. Certainly Spock wouldn't, couldn't, hurt her in an emotional way. And he wouldn't harm her physically either, it's not logical to physically harm your mate. I doubt the Pon Farr has anything to do it. Remember that the Pon Farr was an extremely personal element of a Vulcan's personality. I wasn't dicussed with non-Vulcans, expect when absolutely necessary. Tuvok and T'Pol both later tried to not talk about it with non-Vulcans. Therefore, Chapel probably doesn't know that much about it.
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2009, 11:03 AM   #4
Green Shirt
Commodore
 
Green Shirt's Avatar
 
Location: 21133
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

I don't recall, but wasn't she under the influence of the PSI 2000 disease at the time she asked the question?
__________________
Its not easy being green.
Green Shirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2009, 05:12 PM   #5
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
I'd say she was referring to how Vulcan men treat their wives emotionally. It would certainly seem strange to humans that a husband would express absolutely no love or affection towards his wife.
Conversely, it would seem very natural that humans *assume* Vulcan couples don't express love towards each other, but I highly doubt this is true. Vulcans probably just express it differently.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2009, 05:17 PM   #6
Hambone
Fleet Captain
 
Hambone's Avatar
 
Location: Land of cheese, sausage and beer
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

You're all reading too much into this. Vulcan men all have those sex-swing things in their bedrooms. That's all.
__________________
Get a haircut, hippie.
Hambone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2009, 11:43 PM   #7
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

I'd say she was referring to how Vulcan men treat their wives emotionally. It would certainly seem strange to humans that a husband would express absolutely no love or affection towards his wife.
But that'd be an oddly biased view. After all, Vulcan wives would also fail to express love towards their husbands. If Chapel fails to recognize this, we're back to claiming that she has misconceptions about Vulcan customs, rather than authentic knowledge - and then we cannot really answer the question "what is she talking about?" because we cannot know what misconceptions she holds.

Whether Vulcan is a matriarchal or patriarchal culture, Sarek certainly looks like he's keeping his wife on a short leash. Perhaps said Ambassador is the only Vulcan that humans have had a chance to observe, and thus to form misconceptions about? Or perhaps all Vulcan Ambassadors interacting with humans are like that - males chosen for their authoritarian attitudes? Funny in any case that Nurse Chapel seems to know more about Vulcans than her superior officers do...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23 2009, 02:59 AM   #8
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Remember that the Pon Farr was an extremely personal element of a Vulcan's personality. I wasn't dicussed with non-Vulcans, expect when absolutely necessary. Tuvok and T'Pol both later tried to not talk about it with non-Vulcans. Therefore, Chapel probably doesn't know that much about it.
How come Droxine (The Cloud Minders) had heard about it?


Timo wrote: View Post
Whether Vulcan is a matriarchal or patriarchal culture, Sarek certainly looks like he's keeping his wife on a short leash. Perhaps said Ambassador is the only Vulcan that humans have had a chance to observe, and thus to form misconceptions about? Or perhaps all Vulcan Ambassadors interacting with humans are like that - males chosen for their authoritarian attitudes?
That's pretty hard to believe. It's not like Humans and Vulcans had only known each other for a couple of years, or that there aren't any distinguished female Vulcans Humans would have been familiar with. Shouldn't they at least have been familiar with T'Pau?
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23 2009, 03:03 AM   #9
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

ElfEars wrote: View Post
Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Remember that the Pon Farr was an extremely personal element of a Vulcan's personality. I wasn't dicussed with non-Vulcans, expect when absolutely necessary. Tuvok and T'Pol both later tried to not talk about it with non-Vulcans. Therefore, Chapel probably doesn't know that much about it.
How come Droxine (The Cloud Minders) had heard about it?
She's Spock's cyber staker.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23 2009, 04:54 AM   #10
threeb
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Conversely, it would seem very natural that humans *assume* Vulcan couples don't express love towards each other, but I highly doubt this is true. Vulcans probably just express it differently.
I agree with you. I seriously doubt that *no* love exists in Vulcan families, otherwise they would be indifferent to their offspring, wouldn't care what they did once they left home, etc. IMHO, Vulcans love each other, they just feel no need to say/demonstrate it like humans do.
threeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23 2009, 06:50 AM   #11
Admiral Shran
Admiral
 
Location: In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

threeb wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Conversely, it would seem very natural that humans *assume* Vulcan couples don't express love towards each other, but I highly doubt this is true. Vulcans probably just express it differently.
I agree with you. I seriously doubt that *no* love exists in Vulcan families, otherwise they would be indifferent to their offspring, wouldn't care what they did once they left home, etc. IMHO, Vulcans love each other, they just feel no need to say/demonstrate it like humans do.
There's no doubt that Vulcans experience love. They experience the same full range of emotions as Humans. They just repress their emotions so that they don't become overwhelmed. Even Sarak experienced emotions. After his mind-meld with Picard, we learn that he deeply loved his family and greatly regretted never being close with Spock. He just never let on because that's "not their way."
__________________
Vote Obomney 2012!
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that it's magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert, Dune
Admiral Shran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23 2009, 02:23 PM   #12
Brutal Strudel
Rear Admiral
 
Brutal Strudel's Avatar
 
Location: Here, frozen between time and place, not even the brightest lights escape...
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

On Vulcan, to express love is the height of poor taste. Spock says so in the same episode that inspired this thread.
__________________
Once every lifetime, we're swallowed by the whale.
Brutal Strudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23 2009, 02:34 PM   #13
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

I always assumed she was talking about the pon farr, or probably about the rumors about it.
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2009, 12:32 AM   #14
M'Sharak
Definitely Herbert. Maybe.
 
M'Sharak's Avatar
 
Location: Terra Inlandia
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

Green Shirt wrote: View Post
I don't recall, but wasn't she under the influence of the PSI 2000 disease at the time she asked the question?
She was. It's the scene where Chapel infects Spock.
__________________
Dinosaurs are just really, really big chickens.
M'Sharak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2009, 01:07 AM   #15
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: "...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."

I figured she'd just heard some freaky rumors that had no more than a kernel of truth.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.